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Antiques! => Antique Questions Forum => Topic started by: Mostly Arctophile on September 23, 2014, 05:30:14 PM
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Dear Arctophiles & Antiques Experts,
Below is a letter I have written to someone on eBay, who had asked me if my Steiff bear I had put up for sale would be a reproduction. This bear was bought in the early Eighties for about three thousand dollars from a well-known dealer of antique toys.
It was described by him as being a “genuine toy-bear from 1908-1910, produced and marketed by the company “Margarete Steiff”.
It would be great if you could lend your opinion on the matter, as it was always one of my beloved star-attractions.
Thank you so much!
Cheers,
Slightly-Retired Arctophile
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NOTE:
The very first Steiff bear-replica, called “PAPA”, has been brought on the market in 1980. Also, the subsequently produced replicas have been mainly famous characters of the Steiff production lines.
The here shown, a bit “pre-loved”, but nonetheless beautifully preserved, golden-ochre Steiff bear with nickel-plated “button in ear” represents (after my knowledge) no famous character, but it looks on some photos like the “Papa-Bear”.
In addition, it has all the original features to be relatively sure, it is NO REPLICA.
At the time of its purchase, the “Steiff-bear-craziness” was not yet typical, and it is not likely that more than thirty years ago, somebody has taken his/her time to buy replicas and trim them down to “old”, by trying to make “a fortune” with them.
The following features can be found within my antique Steiff toy-bear, like following:
1.) A very typical cut of head- and medium/long body shape from the early Twentieth Century like:
2.) A long snout, stitched with “time-worn” black-faded and twisted yarn onto a bit, but “naturally shortened” looking plush fabric around the nose.
3.) A pair of the first clear glass-eyes painted in golden ochre colour on their back.
If not otherwise, those glass-eyes have been produced after 1908.
4.) A typical kind of hump for that time.
5.) A pair of typically long sickle arms with very good preserved (looking alike) original ochre felt pads, (only two small holes).
6.) A pair of relatively short/medium legs furnished with long feet and very slightly damaged, but good preserved (looking alike) original ochre felt pads and, interestingly enough,
7.) It has a very unusual large pressure voice box placed into its entire front-body, but isn’t working anymore.
8.) The excelsior-filling feels and sounds like a very old filling. The new fillings, even with the same material, are reacting differently by pressure and movement.
9.) The (a bit) worn-off, old nickel-button looks original and it is firmly pressed into the fabric like all old and original “button in ears”. (Replica buttons appear different.)
10.) However, there is no information on the market about the genuine old head- and disc limb joints made out of cardboard and kept together by thick wire, turned on their ends to loops. Such old stuff could be probably a genuine proof too for the identity-search of an old Steiff toy-bear.
So far, our golden Steiff-bear has the typical Steiff-features and the absolutely unequalled sweet and curious impression, replicas never ever can offer!
Nonetheless, after reading about all the different opinions on internet regarding originals and their replicas, we are now a bit confused and want to make our own research at private collectors and auction houses.
On trading- and collector fairs, commonly small to medium sized original Steiff toy-bears from the Fifties are offered for about $4000-.
Therefore, this beautiful collector item has been offered “too cheap to be true”!
It’s certain that one coming day the right auction for professionals will find it in a much higher price-class.
By the way, I am a non-professional arctophile in this “slippery” metier, but have enough experiences as a critical collector (since 1965) furnished with a normal-tempered attitude towards antique Steiff plush toys and –dolls.
At least, with advancing age and failing health, one thinks more about the germs and viruses they may have hidden in their fillings and/or cardboard disc joints, than look at them in an unhealthy “collector-craziness”!
Cheers!
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More pics:
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Hi there and welcome to the group !! Can you tell me about the ear button ?? What does it say and exactly what size is it in millimeters if possible !! That is the easiest way to tell an original Steiff bear and its age !! The reproductions are not marked like the older bears even if they are still original !! The fakes are another thing and are not considered in the same category as an original or reproduction !! They should be fairly easy to recognize !!
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Hi Mart, thank you for the welcome!
I'll post some more pics I just took. You can see a tiny orange label remnant:
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Am I seeing correctly ?? 7mm ??
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everything looks right on this bear to me. I have one from the same era, sans fur. Mine is missing the tag because it fell out. The big paw pads, the ears, the eyes all look right to me. I think it is the real thing. That button, if I am correct in my memory, was first used in 1908 with a nickel finish and the drawn back F.
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http://www.steiffnews.com/history_steiff_button.htm
1908 - 1927 The button would be 4 mm in size, iron and nickel, and have Steiff on it !!
1925 - 1935 Nickel plated , with Steiff on it and 8 mm !!
1948 through 1950 is a blank button,, could be a 'second' nickel plated and 5 mm size !!
1952 - 1972 Nickel plated with Steiff in script and 5 mm size !!
These are the early nickel plated buttons and correct sizes !! The Steiff site gives the list !! I personally think this bear is probably from the 1925 to 1935 years !! I don`t think the hump appeared until those years !! It isn`t mentioned earlier !! And if the button is over 4 mm in size it would be later !!
Still a very nice Steiff bear and would be a great addition to any collection !!
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Mart, the hump has been there since the first bears in 1905 according to several examples I have found on line. The size of the button does make me question the date from what you say. It is a great bear and should bring a good price. Most of the older ones I see, including my own have shoe button eyes.
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I am just going by what their site says !! If the button is larger than 4 mm would have to be a later bear !! If the gentleman is going to sell it just needs the year of production correct !! Its a nice bear !!
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Thank you for the replies, mart and frogpatch.
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I think you can safely tell the buyer it is an original early Steiff bear !! Let us know how the sale goes !!
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Am I seeing correctly ?? 7mm ??
Well now, ..... I'm confused. ::)
The ruler in Post #3, picture #3, is showing centimeters CM .....
and you all are talking millimeters MM ??? ??? ???
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?That is centimeters isn`t it ?? Now I am confused !! The site said 4 mm, that is barely 1/8 of an inch isn`t it ??
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If the rule is correct …. and placed on top of the button, then button is 7cm wide or 2 ¾” (2.76) wide.
A 4 mm wide button would be 1 ½ tenths of an inch (0.15748) wide
For conversions, … use Google and just key in ….. convert xx to yy
where "xx" is 7cm, ... to in, .... etc. or "xx" is 20 acres .... to sq ft
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Cogar,, math is not my strong point !!
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Cogar,, math is not my strong point !!
Mart;
You're correct in reading the button as being 7mm in diameter. Remember: 10mm = 1cm, so a rule marked "cm" can be compared to a yardstick marked "inches".
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OK,, Rauville now I am thoroughly confused !!
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Cogar,, math is not my strong point !!
Mart, because so many people are now posting dimensions in metric is why I told you that Google "trick".
When someone posts a temperature of 12C (12 degrees centigrade) .... then just load Google as a 2nd "window" and key in ..... convert 12c to f .... and hit the "return" key and it will immediately display "12 = 53.6" ... or 53.6 degrees fahrenheit.
It "converts" either direction, ..... c to f, --- f to c, ... in(ches) to mi(les) --- mi to in,... bushels to pints, .... whatever.
Or if someone uses a word you are unfamiliar with just enter ..... define ????? .... and hit the "return" key
I keep Google "open" as a 2nd window just for the above purpose.
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Oh !! Cogar you know I am not tech minded,,how would I do a second window ?? Your computer may be fancier than mine !! Or have more stuff on it !!
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Mart, when internet is loaded …… there are “menu” bars at the upper left corner.
The 1st one has …. File Edit View Favorites Tools Help …. tabs to select
The 2nd one has … 3 or 4 icons and then …. Page Safety Tools …. tabs to select one of them
If you “click” the … Page tab, … a drop-down window appears.
“click” the 1st one that says New Window ….. and it will open up a 2nd copy …. and if you look at the bottom of your screen you will see 2 “Antique Questions” names there and the “darker” shaded one is the one you are viewing.
That way you can look at 2 different AQF topics just by “clicking” back n’ forth on the “names” on the bottom line.
Or you can click Google in your “favorites” and it will load on the one you are looking at.
With the 2 windows you can compare “pictures” in 2 different AQF topics simply by ….. “clicking” back n’ forth …. on the names on the bottom line.
Or, when viewing say a “chair” on an AQF post you can ….. search Google “Images” to find one that looks like it …. just by … “clicking” back n’ forth between the 2 windows.
You can open up 3 or 4 "new windows" if you want, ....
Play around with it and any problems ... let me know.
If you "click" that .... Safety tab ..... then you can selective "Delete Browsing History" ...all that garbage those web sites upload to your PC ..... that really slows it down iffen you haven't deleted them in quite awhile.
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Well how handy that would be !! Gotta try that !! Thanks Cogar !! Learn something new every day !! Yes I always keep browsing history and cookies deleted regularly !!