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Antiques! => Antique Questions Forum => Topic started by: cdburke on December 16, 2014, 12:08:53 PM
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Hello everyone. I have spent a lot of time online trying to identify this piece acquired recently but am new to antiques and not even sure what it should be called. I have found similar pieces referred to as washstands and work tables, but I doubt that was the intended purpose since this piece is more formal.
I was told by the person I bought it from that it is New York and has an onyx top (was his grandmothers and she lived there). A friend said it's American Classical 1820. There is one marking on the underside of a drawer that I believe to be the letter "T" written in pencil (photo included).
I'd greatly appreciate any insight and specifics -- the marking, value, etc...
-David
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Well, I would say American Empire cabinet, not table. 1820 NY sounds about right in rosewood with paw feet and gilded hardware, nice piece.
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I agree with Jacon4 completely. It is a real nice example. A washstand would not show the contents in the bottom. I would hope not anyway.
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As for value i hate to even talk about it, shockingly low unless it has a special provenance or built by a famous maker like Duncan Phyfe.
http://www.liveauctioneers.com/search?q=empire+cabinet&by_date=2014-12-16T19:47:10.181Z&sort=relevance&dtype=gallery&hasimage=true&type=complete&rows=20
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Yep !!Not sure about that grille work on front !!
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Hi and welcome!
Do the gridded insets in the doors look original? Are they made of glass overlay?
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Good question on grill, it looks to be glass. It may not be original to the piece, ditto the onyx top as well, this piece might have been converted into a bar cabinet at some point along the way. Still, an impressive piece of Empire that is almost certainly american. Value on Empire & Classical tends to be low because it just isn't in fashion, ditto later victorian and, a very good buy these days.
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These were typically solid doors, many were flame mahogany !! Of course there may be exceptions but it is the first I have seen with this type door or top !!
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This could be mahogany or rosewood, hard to tell from pics alone. Agrees, appears some alterations have been done but that is not unusual for a piece going on 200 years old. A survivor!
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That's true !! But it is a classic example of American Empire style !! Oddly enough,, things with feet like this sell pretty well here in my little corner of Texas !!
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Yeah, even altered, piece still has alot going for it, original gilded brass mounts/hardware for one thing, the feet for another.
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I appreciate all the replies. The grill looks original to me, but I’m definitely not an expert – no wear/finish that appears different. It’s actually impossible to clean the inside glass without removing the four pieces of trim around the door to take out the grill, which I haven’t done. The grill isn’t any kind of metal. I included a photo of the interior door with the post , which hopefully provides a better answer.
Is it possible the cabinet could have been built initially by certain specifications, or is the way it appears just not something that would have been possible/done at that time? As I mentioned, it belonged to the grandmother of the person I bought it from, and he said many of them were custom made. Neither of us are experts of course, but I was thinking maybe she planted that seed many years ago before he knew anything about it.
Any insight into the marking that appears to be a “T” in the last photo on the underside of a drawer?
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Didn't realize it was possible to attach more photos with each post...
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Interior of door...
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Was pretty sure before that those pulls and the gold banding on the columns had been spray painted,,those last pics remove all doubt that they were !! You can clearly see the spray fuzz at the edge !! A gilded gold would have much more detail and sharp crisp lines,,spray paint hides detail and fills in all the lines !!
As to the doors,, anything is possible !! Another possibility is that if the solid panels were replaced with the grille work and glass,,it was an early replacement and has aged sufficiently to be hard to tell !!
In any case,, the only thing that might reflect on the value is the spray painted pulls and banding !!
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Thanks mart -- and all. That's a bit of a bummer about the spray paint (of course), but I certainly still love it. In at $600, a new cabinet from somewhere like Crate and Barrel would cost double with much less character and zero history. I'm only 32 by the way!
Is it likely that the pulls/banding are actually brass but spray painted for whatever reason over the last two centuries? With the additional photos added earlier, can anyone confirm whether mahogany or rosewood?
I'd love to continue learning about the piece if there are additional thoughts.
Also picked up the attached bookcase from the same person but can't say I know much of anything about it yet...
David
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David, no need worry over issues like alterations to antique furniture, it's one of those is what it is kinda deals. The mounts & hardware on period american Empire is brass that has been gilded and the fact that it's still there on your cabinet and is original is what counts. So what if it's been over painted, if you wanted you could remove the paint and have it regilded.
A word about Empire VS Classical as they are often confused with one another. They are the same form, it's just that one is hand made (empire) with lavish decoration (gilded mounts, hand carving) and one is machine made (classical) large blocks of band sawed pine that is veneered with little decoration. This empire and later classical style lasted over 100 years in america, 1800-1900 so it had a long run in furniture fashion in america.
Here is an Empire piece attributed to Duncan Phyfe at the MET, it's attributed because Phyfe almost never signed his work, the putz!
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At $600. I think you did well & could not buy the lumber that is in your cabinet for that. Empire can go for big money, naturally condition plays an important role in value for almost any piece of antique furniture, i say "almost" because if say your cabinet was signed by Phyfe for instance, condition becomes much less important.
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Could be either wood,, my personal opinion is mahogany simply because it was the most commonly used and the pic of the column looks like it !! But hard to tell from a pic !! Like Jacon4 said,, don`t sweat the small stuff !! Its a nice cabinet !!
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No big whoop about the hardware like the others said! They are original and can be restored if that is what you want!! :)
The piece is very nice and classy looking!
Majority of antiques have some type of face lift over the years (probably not as much as some people do to themselves these days! LOL). Unlike people, majority of simple paint updates aren't permanent and can be reversed! :)
Think you did well for the money! ENJOY IT!!!!
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Couldn`t see much on the book case (back and inside would help) !! Unless I am utterly mistaken I would bet its a walnut bookcase, from around 1900 !! Need to see more pics !! Am I right that it doesn`t have a pull on the door,, just insert key, turn and pull to open ??
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Agrees, guesses 1900, glass door book case, i dont really see a style on this one but i cant see it very well either. It's worth pointing out that old furniture really can not be evaluated or authenticated with pic's alone, that sort of thing requires personal inspection by someone who is familiar with the style, fashion or piece.
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Mart/Jacon -- some photos below since you mentioned not being able to see. Mart suggested I post clearer pics. I definitely understand about the evaluation/authentication -- just want to have a better idea about it generally.
I lightened up the photos since the book case is so dark. Also, it's on wheels (as you can see below). Thanks!
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Thought I’d pass along a few links of similar cabinets identified while searching further online. Although we confirmed NY for the piece, it appears a lot of British cabinets had grill doors with fabric behind them during the same period.
http://www.antiques-atlas.com/antique/regency_rosewood_breakfront_cabinet/as514a068
http://www.antiques-atlas.com/antique/rosewood_side_cabinet__chiffonier_/as287a807
http://www.onlinegalleries.com/art-and-antiques/detail/an-early-19th-century-regency-period-rosewood-chiffonier/185985
http://www.liveauctioneers.com/item/19108560_a-william-iv-rosewood-chiffonier-fitted-single-frieze
http://www.chicoraantiques.com/fine-new-york-federal-gentlemen%E2%80%99s-linen-press-with-ormolu-mounts-circa-1815/
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well, your cab could be english or recent immigrant to NY. Empire was very popular pretty much everywhere at the turn of the 19th century, it's downside was that it was expensive to build so not many could afford it. Generally speaking, english furniture has oak secondary wood, i can't tell from pic's what yours is but it doesn't look like oak.
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I did not see any oak in the secondary wood either !! Of the links you posted only one was stated as American made !! Truthfully,, there is little way to really know once it is here in the U.S other than in the most minute details !! The others are in the UK !!
Back in the 1970`s there were shiploads of furniture purchased in the UK for pennies on the dollar and brought here !! I bought quite a bit of it when I had my shop !! Many pieces were Empire style as yours is !! The problem was over the years many people who purchased these,,and were told by dealers that they were American made, sold them as American made !! History is lost after it passes through several hands !! Not that they would have known the difference anyway !! Its possible that is where this one came from !! Peoples memories are notoriously bad when it comes to remembering where furniture came from after it has been in their home 40 or 50 years !!
That could account for the grille work which was not common here !!
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Yep, agrees with Martha on that. I can't even tell for sure what the primary wood is, nevermind secondary. All that can be done from the internet is give general observations, to get more than that requires a personal inspection preferably on a padded elevated turnstile with 1000 watts or so of halogen light. Photo's just won't cut it as there are just to many variables, tool marks, species of wood, etc. that photo's just do not reveal.
You should be able to find a local network of collectors/dealers that specialize in Empire where you live that could be much more specific if they could see your cabinet in person. Generally speaking, most collectors/dealers are more than happy to share info, show their collection, talk you to death about objects they collect.
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I think that it is worth a closer inspection as Jacon4 said !! Then let us know what is said !! And on a secondary note,,most of the links you gave also had been slightly altered,,, repro pulls, re-gilded ect !! That's why we said not to be too concerned about that !!
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Thanks! I'll let you all know when I figure it out...