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Antiques! => Antique Questions Forum => Topic started by: cdburke on April 02, 2015, 07:19:58 PM
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All,
I posted late last year after picking up this cabinet and received some great input -- getting into it and learning. I have since found out that it didn't come from England in the 70's, because the guy I bought it from sent a photo of his mother sitting beside the cabinet in the 50's.
I picked up some Brasso yesterday and was able to clean the lion pulls without much difficulty. The mount you see in the second pic was a totally different story and took two hours using whatever I had around the house to remove tarnish without scratching -- before finally arriving at the third pic. The Brasso instructions stated something about rubbing gently for heavy tarnish, which was a joke! I didn't see much online but want to be sure I don't damage -- know there must be a better way. Is Brasso the best product to remove tarnish between all the intricate detail, and what's the most effective tool? How can I safely remove the paint/stain that can be seen in the fourth photo showing a partially polished piece?
I'd greatly appreciate any thoughts/suggestions! Any insight into the history of the cabinet would certainly be appreciated too.
I started a new topic, because it's clearly not a pier table as initially titled.
http://www.antique-shop.com/forums/index.php?topic=16896.0
David
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I'll also mention that one person thought, based on photos, that the brass may have been spray painted at some point. I thought that was the case until I was able to -- although very difficult -- polish both pulls and one mount. However, I don't know how difficult it should be to polish. Perhaps it was, in fact, painted.
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That time frame was only given as a possibility,,not necessarily that yours was part of those shipments !! As to the brass,, I use Wrights silver polish and an old toothbrush to get into creases !! Sometimes if the brass was originally antiqued,,( very likely during that time) the creases will remain dark,,almost black and should be left !!
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I'd go easy on this cleaning process until i knew how these mounts are gilded, if they were "fire gilded" they used mercury in that process and most gilders did not live past 40 years of age because of this.
"The manufacture of true bronze doré ormalu employs a process known as mercury-gilding or fire-gilding, in which a solution of nitrate of mercury is applied to a piece of copper, brass, or bronze, followed by the application of an amalgam of gold and mercury. The item was then exposed to extreme heat until the mercury burned off and the gold remained, adhered to the metal object."
Bottom line? you need someone who is familiar with this period of furniture to examine the cabinet in person to come up with a restoration plan, guessing just won't do.
http://www.vam.ac.uk/content/articles/c/caring-for-your-gold-and-ormolu/
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Interesting. Thank you both.
And you did say the Mercury burned off, right?
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LOL, yes, the mercury is burned off leaving only the gold, i think. No danger that i am aware of but heres the thing, if your mounts are fire gilded, there is NO WAY they can be gilded that way again. As for any restoration, it is not expensive & usually free to get a plan by someone thats qualified to do it, the expense is normally in the treatment so it just makes sense to me to proceed that way even if one decides to not restore. Otherwise you risk damage/value to the piece for really no gain.
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Jacon4,, While gilding will wear off I did not think it would tarnish !! Of course it might depend on how heavy/thick the gold layer was !!
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Mart informed late last year that the mounts had been spray painted, which you can see in the pic below -- the larger piece on the right side. Particularly in the middle part/rib where there is no detail.
Jacon -- I was referred to someone in Alexandria, VA (DC here) and will consult.
Regarding the second photo below, is it not odd that the mounts were put in place before staining? Mahogany, right?
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jacon4,, While gilding will wear off I did not think it would tarnish
I would agree with that, gilded brass should not tarnish which i would think is the primary reason to gild it to start with, our problem is, we do not even know if the brass was gilded for sure or how it was originally done. For all we know, they put a coat of varnish on the brass to keep it's luster. Another thing is, this is most likely american brass as opposed to english, prior to the revolutionary war, almost all brass furniture hardware in the colonies was english, after the war, american.
Regarding the second photo below, is it not odd that the mounts were put in place before staining? Mahogany, right?
The apron/base looks like mahogany to me but the column looks like poplar, another indication the cab is american. They probably stained the poplar to match the mahogany cabinet. Is it odd? I dont think so no, it was built by hand and finished that way as well, any stain that got on the mounts could have easily been wiped off.
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I said spray painted because in the first series of pics ( if I remember correctly) there were overspray lines !! You might refer back to those pics to check !! Could well be American made !! Another point in its favor !!
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I said spray painted because in the first series of pics ( if I remember correctly)
They could very well have been painted somewhere along the way, this is EXACTLY why it's impossible to rely on photo's alone, you gotta have an in person examination to determine the construction details. You can get generalized findings from pic's, what era, what style, is it american, etc. but to get specific findings, in person is the only way to go.
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So true !! I think that is the plan isn`t it cdburke ?? Or was I reading a different post ?? This has been a bad few days !!
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Yes, that's the plan -- consult professional.
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Yes, the problem is internet pic's ( even professional photo's) just do not reveal construction details on old furniture the naked eye will, they say that day is coming but, it's not here yet. General info yes, detailed analysis, noooooooooooooooooo oooooo.
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Yes, that's the plan -- consult professional.
Will wait to hear what the consensus is !!
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Update…
The person I saw was extremely knowledgeable about antiques in general. After viewing his inventory while waiting a few minutes, I was impressed that he was impressed with my cabinet. He thought it was of exceptional form and made between 1816 and 1820 (NY). He said he hasn’t ever seen anything of its kind and that it was likely a pair. He told me the drawers were secondary cherry (pic below) and thought that was unusual -- other parts poplar of course. Also, he was unsure about the ring under the base (pic) and thought that was different/unusual too. He confirmed that the mounts had been fire gilded and told me the feet had gold leafs although painted/stained now (pic). He did not see any indication that the doors were not original. I actually had no idea the grill inserts were brass, since they were not gilded and very tarnished.
Take a look at the after photos below!!
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Two more photos...
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Yeah, how about the top, is it original? The drawer secondary wood being cherry is not common but others did do that sort of thing, Herter Bros built high end cabs and used cherry that way.
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The onyx top. I gathered from his comments that it would not have been common (or likely wasn't original), but I forgot to ask specifically. Thanks!
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Yeah, that hurts it's resale value some. It certain circles Empire can bring good money although antique furniture is generally down in prices, thats good for collectors, bad for sellers.
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But its a beautiful piece and surely something to keep for the future !!
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Yes, thank you!! I have no intention of ever selling.
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By "ring" are you talking about the little apron on the bottom ??
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Yes, that's correct.