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Antiques! => Antique Questions Forum => Topic started by: mariok54 on April 16, 2015, 10:25:13 AM
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Hi,
It's been a long time since I've graced this forum, and I have missed it, and hello to all those who remember me, and hi to those who don't. I felt that this was just the place to come to hopefully pick some excellent brains.
I saw this in an auction catalogue. It was described as a silver and glass pen tray made by Robert Linzeler, a name I know well, so phoned in a commission bid and won it.
It arrived in the post today ...... not only was it far smaller than I imagined (my fault for not even attempting to check) but I cannot see how it can possibly be a pen tray. I reconciled myself to the fact that it was probably intended for some small Victorian pens or pencils(the size that you might expect to see on a chatelaine), but after several minutes of trying to work out how the lid lifted, I came to the conclusion that unless someone had welded it down it wasn't meant to lift. I then realised that the two end sections of glass pull back on springs.
Now, the recesses that are exposed when the class is pulled back is far too small to accommodate any pen, other than a really tiny one, and I cannot imagine Linzeler making such a well constructed piece for two tiny pens. If you found any pens to actually fit in there, OK they would be kept in place by the sprung section of glass, but it would be a real pain to get them out. I've put an old cartridge converter in one end so you can hopefully see how it's constructed. Even that cartridge is far too big, when I tried to slot it in it sprung straight out again.
I have contacted the Auction house to see if they might have an idea as to its real purpose, but would welcome any ideas.
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Maybe a pin tray? ;D ;D
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Maybe a pin tray? ;D ;D
Could be ... someone slipped their vowels! ;)
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Thats what I was thinking !! Remember the large pins ladies used to use with the bead for a head ?? My grandmother used them and kept them in a dresser box !!As I recall they were used to pin scarves around the neck or flowers for a Sunday corsage !!
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Cigarette Holder?
Does the top "frame work" open? I anything "mechanical" about it? Push down on part sticking up and it moves something else?
Very interesting that it is "screwed" together and not a solid piece!
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Mmm,, KC made me think !! How many slots are there and how big is the box ?? Could be a cigarette box !!
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Okay, is this yours?
http://www.the-saleroom.com/en-gb/auction-catalogues/boningtons-auctioneers-and-valuers/catalogue-id-srbon10058/lot-1929c552-304d-4270-905a-a46e009f6666 (http://www.the-saleroom.com/en-gb/auction-catalogues/boningtons-auctioneers-and-valuers/catalogue-id-srbon10058/lot-1929c552-304d-4270-905a-a46e009f6666)
This one has a glass insert/lid!!! Which lends me to believe it is a cigarette box and not for pens! Doe your piece that is upright come out/off?
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I was thinking tobbacco-ish too , but maybe the item housed cigarette holders !
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Good Morning All,
I should have given the dimensions in my first post and, KC, that is mine; I won it at the Bonington's Auction. You can see in the catalogue photo that it looks as if it could easily be a pen tray.
It is reallly very small .... the external dimensions are only about 4" long and 2 1/2" wide, and just over 1" deep. So the internal dimensions are considerably smaller.
The photo from the Auction catalogue is probably clearer in some ways than mine. There are three sections of thick glass (A B & C); the centre one does not move and tapers outwards towards the base, so from length on it will be a triangular shape. The two 'outside' lengths of glass (thick enough to go almost all of the way down to the base, are sprung and do pull to the side (in the photo the cartridge is just keeping one corner apart.
So, because of the shape of the centre piece of glass, the recess on either side of the centre section is not only small, but it also narrows towards the base. If it were intended to hold cigarettes, mart, it would only hold two smallish ones, and the spring is so strong that the cigarettes would possibly be slightly crushed, and would be very difficult to remove.
KC, there is no lid that lifts, the only moving parts are the two end sections of glass that are sprung. I imagine that the base is screwed on, rather than being one section, as it allows access to the spring mechanism.
The more I look at this piece, the more confused I get.
I've attached an end on sketch of what it looks like (Apoogies, I am not a draftsman). It shows that the two outside sections of glass can be pushed towards the edges, but these are thick sections of glass that go down almost to the base. Because of the side on profile of the centre piece of glass then you can see there is very little room in the recesses, maximum 1.5 cms across the top (with the glass sections open) tapering down to ? And for what?
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Well,, this is really an odd one !!
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I would have no idea, but from my old draftsman's days of using a Speedball I know that the term "pen" is usually used to describe just the metal nib of a dip pen. Would your "tray" adapt itself to that use?
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I would have no idea, but from my old draftsman's days of using a Speedball I know that the term "pen" is usually used to describe just the metal nib of a dip pen. Would your "tray" adapt itself to that use?
Hi, No it would be totally impractical. With the pressure of the spring it could even damage nibs. I am beginning to think it has nothing at all to do with storing anything, the thing just doesn't seem to have any practical use, but it must have .... Linzeler was no fool ???
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Would it hold a business card or photo?
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Am I correct that the two outside pieces are exerting pressure towards the center? So if you had stick matches or toothpicks in the two slots...the center piece (shaped like a triangle/rhombus) would push the items up towards the surface of the box?
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Am I correct that the two outside pieces are exerting pressure towards the center? So if you had stick matches or toothpicks in the two slots...the center piece (shaped like a triangle/rhombus) would push the items up towards the surface of the box?
Hi KC,
You have it exactly right, the shape of the centre section, together with the inward pressure exerted by the springs can force something upwards. When I was trying to insert the cartridge it kept on flying out, so that made me think 'dispenser' of some sort. I even thought of matches , as you did (and you didn't even have the benefit of being able to play with it), but again, not practical. You could only get about six matches on either side, the top one is easily picked out, but the remainder have to be teased out.... using a match!
???
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Put some sewing needles in it and see iffen they "pop" to the "top" ... 1 at a time.
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Hmmmm, how about toothpicks? This maker is found on food service items....so toothpicks?
I would love to have it and fiddle with it to try and help resolve! LOL
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Hi KC
Tried toothpicks and they were as difficult to budge as matches. I've taken it apart and will photograph it when I get a spare moment.
However, Greenacres may have had a good idea about a photo frame ... My neighbour was thinking along those lines as well ... some sort of 3D frame????
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I have thought but have no clue about this one !! Will feel utterly stupid when it turns out to be something simple !!
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I have thought but have no clue about this one !! Will feel utterly stupid when it turns out to be something simple !!
There are an awful lot of us then, mart, as no-one seems to have seen anything like it before.... but it probably will be something 'simple' :)
I've taken it apart and here is what it looks like ..... even more confusing?
The two end 'blocks' of glass have their ends cut at an angle, for some reason, and the angled 'faces' face downwards?