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Antiques! => Antique Questions Forum => Topic started by: Jlsherf on December 14, 2015, 09:28:32 AM
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I finally took pictures of my aunt's Morris chair. Her mother in law gave this to her about 20 yrs ago along with some other furniture and decorative items. She has given me 2 stories one is that her mother in law told her it was 200 hears old and the other that she told her it was 100 years old. She now says she is not sure if the 200 years old pertained to the dinning table and chairs or to this chair. This is the only "history" we have on it. Lol! I created an album and hope it will link here. If not then I will post the pics another way. Please pardon the dust. I did wipe it down under the cushions but years of dust doesn't budge without a thorough cleaning.
https://goo.gl/photos/xWUfDiasE7wELV2q8
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100 yes, 200 no. Beautiful!!
How about some photos of the 200-year old table?
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I will post those soon. I have to take off the table cloth and pad. I am sure she knew when these were acquired by her family, speaking of mg aunts mother in law. The table is rather ugly to me. Actually the wood is pretty but its got these huge feet/paws. Not ball and foot just huge paws. There are ladder back rush seat chairs that she said came with it. I wish people would write down the history of items they want passed down from generation to generation. Its so frustrating. Her mid century pieces I have no problem with. They are just decorative items and right up my alley but Morris chairs and paw tables, not so much. Lol!
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I can`t see the chair !! Those pics do not work with dial-up !!
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I'm so sorry Mart. I will try one this way. Tell me if it works. If not I will go to my PC and try it that way.
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Mart, I will post others this way if it worked.
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Yes that one is great !! Can see it now !!
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https://www.google.com/?gws_rd=ssl#q=Mission%2F+arts+%26+crafts+style+Morris+chair
Here you go !! But don`t put much faith in those prices !! Even though this style is popular,,almost everything on the internet is overpriced !! Now if you can find a name on it ,,that might change depending on who it is !! Can you tell me what that upholstery is ?? Like a vinyl ??
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Yes the upholstery is a vinyl. It looks to have been recovered. The underside if the seat is stapled. I forgot to take that picture. Do you need more pictures?
I have looked at hundreds with my google searches. This chair has no spindles between the arms and base. It also is not got a peg at the front of the arm holding the arm onto the arm base?. I have looked every inch for a name and there is none. My aunt for years has told me about this chair and said it was worth $5000 - $8000 . My searches have not found this to be true unless it is marked and that was 5 years ago. I know the prices of these on line are not realistic, especially here in NE FL. I have tried to prepare her the best I can. I told her she could always pay someone to appraise it. She doesn't want the chair but it seems like she will only sell it if she can get a big number. Lol! My grandmother was like that. She saved 100's of Avon bottles because, "they are worth a lot of money". I say it didn't cost her anything so sell it and get what she can. What a predicament huh? Lol!
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She's not alone. Human psychology indicates that most people think something is more valuable than it really is, especially if it's theirs. A labeled Stickley chair with the original upholstry would bring some big $, but unfortunately that is not this chair.
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Yes ghopper, I have tried to tell her when I first saw it and looked for a name on it. I guess its human nature but I have even shown her the listed chairs. I did tell her I was going to ask on this forum and send pics. Maybe she will listen to y'all! Lol! After all I am just her niece what do I know?!? Lol!
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Ghopper is right but even Stickley will not bring that much !! They made quite a few and more Stickley Brothers chairs so they are not rare or hard to find !! A realistic price for this chair because it is not marked and has been reupholstered would be in the $800. to maybe $1200. range !! Most older people think that because one,, perhaps exceptional example, of a chair brought that much money that they all will !! Back in the late 70`s and 80`s Duncan Phyfe repro furniture was selling like hotcakes !! My entire dining room was in that style and I had the card table, several drum tables,, ect !! It was nice stuff but still repro !! Today its garage sale material !!
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I hear you Mart! In fact I told her last year she would be lucky to get $800! I think she saw a segment of Antiques Roadhouse and based her knowledge on that. I feel good that all my research is now vindicated! She wants to sell a lot of her things but I warn her all the time they may not bring what she thinks they should. She also wants me to do all the research posting and selling and hand her the money. I know she is my aunt but I believe in fair enterprise. Lol! I don't want to sell and tell her I got less and pocket say 10% because a liar I'm not! At the same time its a lot of work! I use to do online sales so I know what's envolved. Even Craigslist is work. Any suggestions on this are greatly appreciated!
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Hmmmmmm, nooooooooo. This is a Morris style chair but i don't think it's period because if one looks at Stickley, Rohlfs, Limbert, Roycroft, etc period stuff, all those furniture makers built with quarter sawn oak which was a signature feature of that style of furniture, posters chair is built with rotary sawn oak. Although Mission or Arts & Crafts furniture can sell for big bucks if period, signed, good condition, etc, I am guessing this chair was built around 1925-1935, maybe even 1940s. Although wayyyyyyyyyyyy out of my field of interest or knowledge, that rotary sawn oak should not be there if it were a period Mission piece, ditto the seat cushions, they should be leather. Linked is a catalogue of period mission stuff by some of the major makers of the day with the prices included.
http://www.artsandcraftscollector.com/whatsitworth/furniture
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Jacon4 thanks for the link and the input. My personal opinion on it his particular chair is if she was giving it to me I would say " no thank you"! It is not my style at all. Sure wish her mother in law was still here to tell me where it actually can.e from. Lol! I do see your point on the value based on what those pieces on the li k showed. Mart sent me a link to an auction site where many sold for under $100. My greatest fear is when she's gone it will be mine then to get rid of. Lol! I think I will email my aunt the pics and let her try to sell it on Craigslist! Then she will know for herself. Thanks again!
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LOL @ no thank you.
Yeah, i hear you. The thing is, if you have that 1900-1920 craftsman style house and, there are A LOT of them all over the country, almost every city in the northeast has neighborhoods where there are homes where mission furniture fits to a T. I am guessing that is one reason that mission period furniture still sells well, matter of fact, if you don't have the money for period stuff, Stickley still operates and builds brand new high quality mission style furniture. Your piece however looks much later to me, more like what one would find in a 1940s dentist or doctors office lobby, mission revival which, is still built today.
https://stickley.com/
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I would add that where i live now, Charlotte NC, a 1000-1200 square foot craftsman style 1910 bungalow will cost you 200k-250k. The bad news is, at that price it's a "gut" job, you will have to replace all the plumb/elect/hvac, roof, baths, kitchen, etc. It will cost you 150k-200k or more to make that bungalow nice so at the end of the day, you would have close to a 1/2 million in a small house. Considering all that, i can understand why people will drop a few dollars on period mission furniture as a statement type piece, even if they don't furnish the whole house that way.
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I had typed a whole thing and my wifi went down and I lost it! LOL! Yes we too have craftsman style homes in a couple of neighborhoods here in Jacksonville, Fl. They run high to start because of the neighborhoods. If you can find one that's not had all the charm destroyed. I like some of the mission style furniture I just don't like this particular piece. LOL! Maybe I have looked at this style too much! Anyway...wait until you see the dinning table I will post at another time. I'm not sure what it is but my aunt keeps giving me these stories that this furniture belonged to her husband's grandmother before his mother got it. I really hope that if I ever have anything with history to pass down to my children that I write it down so they will never make a mistake about it. LOL! BTW thanks for the new link.
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I like anything made of oak !! You would be surprised at how "livable" some of these pieces are !! Put this furniture in a nice little craftsman style bungalow and it fits right in !!
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Personal Value versus Current Market Value comes in great conflict quite often. It breaks my heart so many times to have to tell someone that. We all have come across that if you have ever took the time to associate yourself with the resale value of items. Bottom line, if it is a family item does the family history value mean enough to hold on to it or to sell it?!
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It's ALL about the construction details! At least it is for me with the stuff i collect, it's about all there is to go on with early furniture.
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I like the quarter sawn better too. Much more interesting!
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And then there is riven oak which is split, not sawn and has much more figure than does quarter sawn oak. Pilgrim furniture was built with riven oak and a couple years ago a small auction house in Asheville NC, Brunk's, had a pilgrim chest up for auction. This chest was misattributed to the mason messenger shop in Mass. and the auction estimate was 3k-5k because the condition of the chest was very poor. The feet were missing, the lid was mostly replaced/ missing, hardware missing and 2 side panels appeared to be replaced, basically all that was left was a "fragment" of the original chest.
As soon as i saw this chest, i realized Brunk's had it all wrong, this chest was in fact carved by Thomas Dennis, america's most celebrated 17th century joiner and, if i played my cards right, it could be mine for a few thousand dollars. I emailed a dealer who handled early stuff but was traveling in europe at that time to get a second opinion, dealer didn't think it was Dennis because of this, that and the other thing. Back to the books and online i went, trying to confirm what i already knew. Then, a couple days before the sale i did a STUPID thing, i fired off an email at 3 in the morning to the leading authority on early stuff asking his opinion. An email came back at 3:30 a.m. saying in effect, YES! YES!! YES!!! this chest was ABSOLUTELY POSITIVELY carved by Thomas Dennis. By 4 a.m. that morning on his blog, up went the story of someone who had discovered a "new" Thomas Dennis chest in N.C. BAM!!!! his blog post included pics, auction link, EVERYTHING. This had the effect of alerting every antiquarian in the nation that a Dennis chest was up for grabs in a couple days. Chest fragment sold for 22k, i never even got a chance to click the bid button once.
http://www.brunkauctions.com/lot-detail/?id=94982
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Oh no! I guess you learned a valuable lesson!
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Riven oak
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Yeah, well, i knew better than to spill the beans but one can get so caught up in the research you forget all about everything else.
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Lol! Especially when you find a jewel such as that!
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It probably went to a museum which is where it really belongs. They will restore it and it will be viewed safely for the rest of time. I originally contacted the dealer because at auctions, cash is KING and i had suggested a partnership or dealer buy with my bid number and sell/finance back to me at a percentage. When dealer balked at partnership but agreed to buy/finance back to me at cost + 20% because they didn't think it was a Dennis chest, that's what led to my losing out on the chest altogether. I didn't want to lose money so i tried to hard to make SURE!
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The thing is, most dealers, museums too, have a room full of objects that were "mistakes", with a long sad story attached to each object. On the other hand, old dad here can't afford to make a mistake like that. Take the above chest, if i had got it for a 5k hammer price, add in a 20% BP, that's now a 6k chest, add in dealer finance fee, we are up to $7200. On top of all that, Thomas Dennis or not, that chest needs to be restored and, you are not going to fix it by making a trip to the hardware store so figure at least 4-5k for restoration. That brings us to 11k-12k or so, a bargain if it is a Dennis chest, if it's not, it's going to wind up in the mistake room, a BIG no no for dad.
This is why over the years, most of the pieces i have i bought from dealers or museums, let them make the mistakes! Yes, you do pay a premium in price that way but i sleep better at night. I still gamble at auction but i gamble hundreds, not thousands or 10s of thousands.
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Smart man! 100's beat 1000's any day!
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jacon4, That is why it is so wonderful to have you and others that have their specialties giving of their knowledge, talents here on the forum. Most people don't even know about the "Mistakes" sections of auction houses and museums and you helped enlighten them.
I truly enjoy reading/learning the more-in-depth information myself.
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It's dealers & museums that have mistake rooms, auction houses specialize in selling other peoples mistakes. It's not that mistakes don't have value, they do, it's more like it does not fit into a particular collection because it wasn't what the buyer thought it was. You can get some pretty good deals on other folks mistakes!