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Antiques! => Antique Questions Forum => Topic started by: jordand on January 03, 2016, 07:49:41 PM

Title: Lion and Snake Embroidery
Post by: jordand on January 03, 2016, 07:49:41 PM
Hello I have this piece of art that appears to be some kind of embroidery. All I know is that it has been passed down for a few generations so it is quite old (over 100 years). There is no name or signature anywhere (although I have not taken it out of the frame). I was just hoping that I could possibly get any sort of insight to this piece, as I know nothing about it or even where to start looking.

Thank you!
Title: Re: Lion and Snake Embroidery
Post by: Jlsherf on January 03, 2016, 08:42:09 PM
I just had to tell you that this is beautiful!  Wish I could he!lp you but someone will I'm sure.  I love the subject matter as well.
Title: Re: Lion and Snake Embroidery
Post by: rink28 on January 03, 2016, 11:34:40 PM
I think I know what this is. This is an embroidered picture of Delacroix "lion and snake" picture. If you go on Google and type in Delacroix "lion and snake" on Google images you will get very similar images like yours. Although the ones on Google are paintings yours is an embroidered picture. Yours looks to be don't at a later time period maybe around early 1900s for a decoration piece for homes. Since its not signed that's another indication it was done by someone else who just copied Delacroixs work
Title: Re: Lion and Snake Embroidery
Post by: rink28 on January 03, 2016, 11:49:18 PM
https://www.google.com/search?site=webhp&tbm=isch&source=hp&ei=mwSKVpW7J4GEjwOb5ZfoCQ&q=delacroix+lion+and+snake&oq=delacroi&gs_l=mobile-gws-hp.1.0.41j0l4.1227.3202.0.5138.9.9.0.1.1.0.257.1825.0j5j4.9.0....0...1c.1.64.mobile-gws-hp..0.9.1694.3.zvQG1k6573w#imgrc=iGD5QB_coTvOxM%3A. Here is a link of a picture very similar to yours!
Title: Re: Lion and Snake Embroidery
Post by: mart on January 04, 2016, 07:20:27 AM
When was it framed ?? The frame is a modern one !!
Title: Re: Lion and Snake Embroidery
Post by: jordand on January 04, 2016, 09:16:36 AM
Here is the back, and I know my grandparents have had it and not reframed it for at least 70 years, however it looks like the frame was painted gold.
Title: Re: Lion and Snake Embroidery
Post by: mart on January 04, 2016, 01:05:55 PM
While it may sound odd to some that would only be mid century or so !! That would still be considered modern !! Your first post indicated it was much older !!  There is really no way to know about the tapestry without its being signed !! Have you asked your family about it ?? That would be the best way to know its history !!  Since these are hand made and not mass produced,, searching the internet is almost useless !!
Title: Re: Lion and Snake Embroidery
Post by: jordand on January 04, 2016, 05:48:58 PM
While it may sound odd to some that would only be mid century or so !! That would still be considered modern !! Your first post indicated it was much older !!  There is really no way to know about the tapestry without its being signed !! Have you asked your family about it ?? That would be the best way to know its history !!  Since these are hand made and not mass produced,, searching the internet is almost useless !!

I was saying I know the frame is at least 70 years old. But the actual picture must be over 100 because it was my great grandma's mothers , and my great grandma just passed 3 years ago at age 102, so my best guess would be upwards of 100 years old. My grandparents have also passed so I really only know as much as my mother does, and she just said it was her great grandma's at one point in time. Do you think there would be any other spots a signature could have been placed besides the picture itself?
Title: Re: Lion and Snake Embroidery
Post by: rink28 on January 04, 2016, 05:55:41 PM
Pretty much what mart said. The frame is modern not that old. The actual picture maybe old but with out a signature it will be impossible to find any information. Try looking on the back of the frame and closely on the front. If you still can't find any signatures it's most likely a decoration for homes back then.
Title: Re: Lion and Snake Embroidery
Post by: jordand on January 04, 2016, 07:33:47 PM
I have some new pictures after taking the picture right out of the frame. It looks like it has been repapered at least 3 times, I was lucky to find some of the newspaper that wasn't exposed , and came up with a date of 1938, so I now know it is at least that old lol. But that could just be a paper from when it was repapered at a later date. You can also see in the one picture the color difference of the material that has been exposed and the material hidden under the frame. The exposed is much darker.
Title: Re: Lion and Snake Embroidery
Post by: mart on January 04, 2016, 07:55:23 PM
If it is mounted on a board of some kind you might check there !! But it would have to be taken out of the frame !! That would be the only place I could think of !! But even back to the turn of the century things like this were mounted and framed just as artwork for the home !!
Title: Re: Lion and Snake Embroidery
Post by: KC on January 05, 2016, 12:43:43 PM
You have a very beautiful piece there!

Have you been able to see the back of the actual embroidery?  The edges?

Was wondering if the edges are "finished" or if they are raw/cut like it came from a larger piece?  If finished it would depend on how it was done to help determine age.

Nice family heirloom to continue passing along!
Title: Re: Lion and Snake Embroidery
Post by: mart on January 05, 2016, 01:28:39 PM
Look at post #5 KC !!  You can see the back but not the border !! The way this was done and the apparent thickness, makes me think this was part of a rug or throw of some type !!  Likely would have had a canvas backing that has been removed !!
Title: Re: Lion and Snake Embroidery
Post by: KC on January 05, 2016, 09:24:59 PM
Reminds me of one my friend had inherited (she has now moved out of state) and hers was originally a HUGE tapestry/rug and over the years was condensed to an appx 12' x 6' that she had framed in plexiglass.  The handiwork was A M A Z I N G and was evident it was done by hand.

I can't tell by these pictures if it is handiwork or machine. 
Title: Re: Lion and Snake Embroidery
Post by: talesofthesevenseas on January 11, 2016, 01:17:37 PM
Did your family live in the USA, UK or elsewhere? I would start by finding a textile museum in that area which specializes in textiles or has a textiles curator. Find out what their policy is on inquiries and go from there.
Title: Re: Lion and Snake Embroidery
Post by: Jlsherf on January 11, 2016, 02:23:25 PM
In my inexperienced opinion, lol, I'm wondering about your "rug" theory.  Take a look at the last set of pics.  The canvas is blank around the subject matter.  Also there seems to be hand stitching outlining it.  Would a rug have areas where there is no stitching?  I really dont know as rugs are something I have never taken an interest in.  This is a really beautiful piece.  The time involved, if it is hand stitched, amazes me!  I have done some embroidery, hand worked pieces, and the large items I have worked on are still waiting on me to complete them.  Lol!  It is so time consuming and tedious.
Title: Re: Lion and Snake Embroidery
Post by: KC on January 12, 2016, 12:45:17 AM
I agree Jlsherf but if you note I stated a tapestry/rug.  I prefer to call it a tapestry but in other parts of the world it could have been considered a rug!  There are many places that the bare spots of the backing/burlap/linen/canvas aren't an issue and are fine for use as a rug.
Title: Re: Lion and Snake Embroidery
Post by: ghopper1924 on January 12, 2016, 06:20:56 AM
As was stated earlier, the subject matter is far older than the artwork. Given the artistic values reflected in the lion and serpent, my guess would be that it is in fact over 100 years old, i.e. 1890-1910.  Nice piece! Unfortunately, tapestries are usually not worth what you would think they should be.
Title: Re: Lion and Snake Embroidery
Post by: Jlsherf on January 12, 2016, 07:52:43 AM
See there KC I just learned something again!  Like I said, my "inexperienced" opinion.  I love the lessons!  😀
Title: Re: Lion and Snake Embroidery
Post by: KC on January 12, 2016, 06:00:53 PM
Jlsherf, I am ALWAYS learning something new from the vast knowledge on this forum! WE are so glad to have you on here!

Glad we could help out some.  But we still don't have a definitive answer for you.

I too think it could be an older piece. 

The problem with pieces like this is that it is only worth what the consumer/public is willing to spend.  Has to be that right person looking to buy something like that.  I have seen some amazing and intricate pieces that were valued for $$$$ over the years and they are still for sale for years because the seller can't get the money value for it.  :(
Title: Re: Lion and Snake Embroidery
Post by: jordand on January 16, 2016, 03:27:05 PM
You have a very beautiful piece there!

Have you been able to see the back of the actual embroidery?  The edges?

Was wondering if the edges are "finished" or if they are raw/cut like it came from a larger piece?  If finished it would depend on how it was done to help determine age.

Nice family heirloom to continue passing along!

The edges are finished
Title: Re: Lion and Snake Embroidery
Post by: mart on January 16, 2016, 05:01:53 PM
If you live within driving distance of a reputable museum you might try an appointment with the curator there !!  Would have to see the piece in person for a proper ID !!