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Antiques! => Antique Questions Forum => Topic started by: mart on January 30, 2017, 07:43:22 PM

Title: Civil War container !!
Post by: mart on January 30, 2017, 07:43:22 PM
https://www.kovels.com/forums/question/civil-war-container-need-help-identifying-this-please.html

Anyone have an idea what this container was used for ??  Has the U.S. in oval embossed in both sides !! Will try to find out what the size is !!
Title: Re: Civil War container !!
Post by: greenacres on January 30, 2017, 08:14:54 PM
For some reason I'm thinking and I'm guessing it was for coals for a fire. Hot coals.
Title: Re: Civil War container !!
Post by: mart on January 30, 2017, 08:39:18 PM
Could be Greenacres !!  Thats a  better guess than any I have come up with !!
Title: Re: Civil War container !!
Post by: KC on January 31, 2017, 12:43:33 AM
Pretty sure this is an ammo box.  My source for confirming this (my nephew) is in the large group of US Military that you saw just arrived in Poland recently...so, don't have him for expertise for awhile!  :(

Title: Re: Civil War container !!
Post by: cogar on January 31, 2017, 05:44:38 AM
Now I can't think of any reason for there to be both a "carrying" handle and a "pouring" handle on a small tin case or container unless it was used to transport a "pourable" item.
Title: Re: Civil War container !!
Post by: mart on January 31, 2017, 09:07:31 AM
That handle is what I do not get and if you notice,, it is small compared to that sheet of notebook paper !!
Title: Re: Civil War container !!
Post by: KC on January 31, 2017, 08:47:41 PM
I wonder if the large handle is original?  It would take a "hands-on" to possible tell this.

Title: Re: Civil War container !!
Post by: cogar on February 01, 2017, 04:20:07 AM
KC, I think you are correct. The style of that handle doesn't match the style of the metal box.
Title: Re: Civil War container !!
Post by: greenacres on February 01, 2017, 09:07:11 AM
https://goo.gl/images/i82Abl
This looks like a similar example. A coal scuttle.
Title: Re: Civil War container !!
Post by: mart on February 01, 2017, 10:00:44 AM
But this one is 6 in. X 5 in. X 1 1/2 in. !! 
Title: Re: Civil War container !!
Post by: greenacres on February 01, 2017, 01:05:35 PM
I was thinking maybe they varied in size and shape.
Title: Re: Civil War container !!
Post by: talesofthesevenseas on February 01, 2017, 06:47:35 PM
I showed this to my fiance who has been doing Civil War reenacting all his adult life. He says he believes that it is a meat ration can, but we're going to check with another source.
Title: Re: Civil War container !!
Post by: talesofthesevenseas on February 02, 2017, 01:04:12 AM
It looks like you may have something very special. Here is the reply from our second source, another long time reenactor with a lifetime of studying this era under his belt:

"Oh my god.  The Army came out with an experimental combination  meat ration can and coffee tin cup in the 1870s.  Imagine drinking coffee out of a bacon grease-soaked tin cup.  It was a prototype that the troops hated and was short-lived.  I'll get more details when I get home tomorrow."
Title: Re: Civil War container !!
Post by: mart on February 02, 2017, 06:34:16 AM
Well,, that is certainly  interesting !!  Hopefully this will be a good find for the person who posted it !!  Anxious to hear the results  !!
Title: Re: Civil War container !!
Post by: KC on February 02, 2017, 10:17:37 AM
Just heard that they also made some interesting pieces for shaving/holding shaving supplies.  The handle would make sense for that as well!
Title: Re: Civil War container !!
Post by: Ipcress on February 02, 2017, 12:14:07 PM
Interesting item but why would you have a ration box / coffee canister with a top handle like that ?

Looks like someone converted this - possibly a soldier in the trenches
Title: Re: Civil War container !!
Post by: Rauville on February 02, 2017, 12:50:17 PM
Interesting item but why would you have a ration box / coffee canister with a top handle like that ?

Looks like someone converted this - possibly a soldier in the trenches

Scroll down to page 32 for some history on this piece.
http://www.history.army.mil/html/museums/messkits/Field_Mess_Gear%28upd_Jul09%29.pdf (http://www.history.army.mil/html/museums/messkits/Field_Mess_Gear%28upd_Jul09%29.pdf)
Title: Re: Civil War container !!
Post by: greenacres on February 02, 2017, 06:56:08 PM
I saw one just like it Icpress. The ration box was invented by name in 1872. They use this item prior, but were had made from cups. They were tin. They kept raw meat in it, so the fat of the meat would no get on everything. The army saw it as a necessity in 1872 and hence the ration box.
Title: Re: Civil War container !!
Post by: Pelady on February 02, 2017, 07:48:35 PM
Karma points to Rauville and tales7cs. Great research!
Title: Re: Civil War container !!
Post by: KC on February 02, 2017, 07:50:28 PM
Learn something new everyday!  Nice reference Rauville!

Interesting that the one in the reference - the bottom of the handle is free/unattached and the one from Kovel's the bottom of the handle is affixed/attached! 
Title: Re: Civil War container !!
Post by: Ipcress on February 03, 2017, 10:29:41 AM
Interesting item but why would you have a ration box / coffee canister with a top handle like that ?

Looks like someone converted this - possibly a soldier in the trenches

Scroll down to page 32 for some history on this piece.
http://www.history.army.mil/html/museums/messkits/Field_Mess_Gear%28upd_Jul09%29.pdf (http://www.history.army.mil/html/museums/messkits/Field_Mess_Gear%28upd_Jul09%29.pdf)

The link won't load but i searched Google for Field Mess Gear 1872 and found " The U.S. Army in the West, 1870-1880: Uniforms, Weapons, and Equipment " online and it's featured in that book, where they have an image of one in great condition...and it still looks like a bit of trench trickery ! Weird design.

This is the link for it on Google Books

https://books.google.co.uk/books?id=n_MimfWYwtwC&pg=PA90&lpg=PA90&dq=us+army+haversack+brace+1872&source=bl&ots=Onit27StDY&sig=DlMSDFhuJyhnoMHgUnf6VIQ5pD8&hl=en&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwit4M-kpvTRAhUlK8AKHV-uDBMQ6AEIIjAB#v=snippet&q=%22%20meat%20can%20%22&f=false

Great book. I'm going to buy a copy !
Title: Re: Civil War container !!
Post by: mart on February 03, 2017, 11:42:41 AM
I am sure the loose handle was earlier than the one attached !!  The loose handle would tend to get bent and generally be more trouble that it was worth not to mention getting hooked on stuff !!  Attaching the bottom at least made it usable !!
Anyone care to guess at a value for the one on kovels ??  I have no clue !!
Title: Re: Civil War container !!
Post by: talesofthesevenseas on February 03, 2017, 11:43:08 AM
See page 32 of this document, sent over by my Civil War reenactor friend. There it is!

http://www.history.army.mil/html/museums/messkits/Field_Mess_Gear(upd_Jul09).pdf (http://www.history.army.mil/html/museums/messkits/Field_Mess_Gear(upd_Jul09).pdf)
Title: Re: Civil War container !!
Post by: Rauville on February 03, 2017, 01:09:13 PM
...Anyone care to guess at a value for the one on kovels ??  I have no clue !!

https://auctions.bidsquare.com/view-auctions/catalog/id/556/lot/198532 (https://auctions.bidsquare.com/view-auctions/catalog/id/556/lot/198532)
Title: Re: Civil War container !!
Post by: mart on February 03, 2017, 02:53:32 PM
Thanks Rauville !!  The other one is not as good condition but it will give an idea of worth !!

Thanks everyone !!
Title: Re: Civil War container !!
Post by: ghopper1924 on February 03, 2017, 03:03:42 PM
Awesome! :)
Title: Re: Civil War container !!
Post by: KC on February 04, 2017, 01:56:36 AM
Whoa!  Great price for a unique piece of history!