Antique-shop.com

Antiques! => Antique Questions Forum => Topic started by: DANTE5 on March 16, 2017, 11:10:58 AM

Title: Antique Clay Vessel Origin
Post by: DANTE5 on March 16, 2017, 11:10:58 AM
I've been holding off on this one for some time now.  I acquired this jug at a yard sale in North Georgia (USA).  The owner said her mother had it for sometime but did not know where she acquired it.  The yard sale was from an antique estate, many wonderful old pieces of furniture.  That being the case I felt it was an original antique/vintage piece.  Measuring approximately 7 1/2" tall by 6" including the handle, with 3 clay beads and roping accent.  It appears to be red clay painted black.  I can't seem to identify the possible origin.  The clay beads and rope makes it a little difficult.  Please take a look and tell me what you think.  Thanks in advance.
Title: Re: Antique Clay Vessel Origin
Post by: mart on March 16, 2017, 03:08:03 PM
With the red/terracotta clay,, I would think Mexico but there is nothing about the jug to give a hint except the rope decoration !! Would not likely have the decoration for a jug intending to be used !!  This is usually added to make it sell !!  I would say Mexican tourist item or somewhere in that area !!  But I am no expert !!
Title: Re: Antique Clay Vessel Origin
Post by: DANTE5 on March 16, 2017, 03:22:27 PM
Thanks Mart... I thought so too, but could not find any similar with the beads and rope.  It looks like Mexico to me.. I also thought it could be Mississipian????
Title: Re: Antique Clay Vessel Origin
Post by: KC on March 16, 2017, 05:19:06 PM
My initial reaction was "wonder if that rope/bead decor is original?"  With today's trends being burlap, sisal, twine, etc you see people "dressing up" older pieces to make them current.  I am sure many a piece has been undervalued because of that.

Wish I would tell more from your picture.  Just something doesn't say Mexico to me Mart.  Can't put my finger on it....
Title: Re: Antique Clay Vessel Origin
Post by: mart on March 16, 2017, 06:11:55 PM
Looks to have some age too KC !!  But with the red clay,, thats all I could think of !!  Looks to be a utilitarian item with no decoration !!  But it gives no clue as to its origin !! 
Title: Re: Antique Clay Vessel Origin
Post by: DANTE5 on March 16, 2017, 06:22:06 PM
It is a very old piece.  The rope is a little dry rot and the beads are made of clay.  There is an illusion in the photo on the bottom.  It looks like a red marker of some sort (writing??).  More pics....
Title: Re: Antique Clay Vessel Origin
Post by: mart on March 16, 2017, 06:34:30 PM
That cord is hemp and only takes a few years for it to rot !!  Our motor home has a Texas theme and the bathroom door is trimmed with that stuff !!  You can buy it at any hardware store !! 
Title: Re: Antique Clay Vessel Origin
Post by: DANTE5 on March 16, 2017, 07:05:32 PM
After making the comment that there is an illusion  HAHA!! My bad, I further examined and it is actually dried clay (liquid drip).  I guess the illusion was in my eyes HAHA!!.

I took a picture of inside to the best of my ability, I noticed that it looks like the good old GEORGIA RED CLAY.  I am in Georgia and our clay is really red. Which gives my search a border range.  I'll continue to search possibly Indian ?? 
Title: Re: Antique Clay Vessel Origin
Post by: DANTE5 on March 16, 2017, 07:26:04 PM
That's broaden my search...
Title: Re: Antique Clay Vessel Origin
Post by: Skinny on March 16, 2017, 09:14:31 PM
Put a dab of water on it and smell. If it smells strongly of earth then that indicates it was buried for a long period of time. Precolumbian pottery usualy has that characteristic. It looks aged, but that can be faked. Acetone on a cotton swab. If paint comes off it was painted after it was fired with paints to make it look older.
Title: Re: Antique Clay Vessel Origin
Post by: KC on March 17, 2017, 12:35:28 AM
Great suggestions Skinny! 
Title: Re: Antique Clay Vessel Origin
Post by: DANTE5 on March 17, 2017, 07:42:15 AM
Well, it seem to have passed the acetone ... NO PAINT...the image has a glare on cotton swab (no paint).  Also I have another piece similar finish.  It is a very large heavy Acorn sculpture, I believe I got it at the same time I got this one from the same yard sale.  Will upload pictures once I retrieve it from shelf.  It has incisions no marking though.
Title: Re: Antique Clay Vessel Origin
Post by: mart on March 17, 2017, 08:03:40 AM
Never thought about Georgia,, come to think of it  we have red clay here where we are in Texas !!  I used to collect Native American artifacts and nothing about this jug looks like that to me,,unless its modern !!
Title: Re: Antique Clay Vessel Origin
Post by: DANTE5 on March 17, 2017, 08:51:50 AM
Mart..On yesterday after reexamining I searched and found an interesting site with Sherd of clay and samples.

http://www.seymourharlan.com/My_Homepage_Files/Page34.html

However I am still confused.  As mentioned in last post, I am uploading pictures of the inverted acorn sculpture.  I am very interested in feedback.  It's very heavy, measuring approximately 10" x 5 1/2".
Title: Re: Antique Clay Vessel Origin
Post by: DANTE5 on March 17, 2017, 08:54:29 AM
Acorn bottom pics......
Title: Re: Antique Clay Vessel Origin
Post by: KC on March 17, 2017, 11:31:46 AM
Mart, how on God's green earth can you forget we have red clay here?????  LOL  (The first time I saw a red sky from a dust storm coming in from the plains I thought the world was coming to an end!)  😮

DANTES, I am searching.  I saw some Alabama clay pieces but couldn't trace them to post here.
Title: Re: Antique Clay Vessel Origin
Post by: Rauville on March 17, 2017, 12:13:49 PM
Looking at that Acorn, I get kind of a Cherokee design feeling?
Title: Re: Antique Clay Vessel Origin
Post by: mart on March 17, 2017, 02:03:40 PM
Mart, how on God's green earth can you forget we have red clay here?????  LOL  (The first time I saw a red sky from a dust storm coming in from the plains I thought the world was coming to an end!)  😮

DANTES, I am searching.  I saw some Alabama clay pieces but couldn't trace them to post here.

Cause ours is covered with two or more feet of sand !!  Only timme I think about it is when it rains and I have to put horses in the stalls !!  Its like a redneck swimming pool back there !!  Red clay quicksand !!  Sucks your shoes off !!
Title: Re: Antique Clay Vessel Origin
Post by: KC on March 18, 2017, 09:41:13 AM
DANTES, I am at a loss to help you.  Hopefully someone else will chime in.  I will continue to look.

Do you have a city near you with a museum that you can call/ask them for someone to do a hands-on inspection n evaluation?  (Are you in Georgia - it seems you listed Georgia somewhere in the thread.)

Mart, I have had many a shoe "sucked off" my foot over the years walking through overly wet red clay.  I have to admit I never expected Texas to have the same looking Georgia Red Clay.  Here's what they do for fun
at the redneck games in Dublin, Georgia!! 
(https://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/564x/cd/7a/52/cd7a5260aabfcfe732ba0db67c36f329.jpg)
Title: Re: Antique Clay Vessel Origin
Post by: DANTE5 on March 18, 2017, 11:03:44 AM
Thanks for trying KC.....I was considering looking for some hands on help with this.  During my extensive research I kept stumbling on pre-historic, ancient pottery and those alike.  (WHEW!!)  I am exhausted. 

BTW....They really do that..(photo) here in Georgia  :)
Title: Re: Antique Clay Vessel Origin
Post by: jacon4 on March 18, 2017, 03:08:25 PM
Not a clue about this jug but, i would send pic's to these guys, they evaluate stoneware & redware for free and are one the largest auction houses in the nation for this kind of object.
http://www.crockerfarm.com/
Title: Re: Antique Clay Vessel Origin
Post by: mart on March 18, 2017, 06:43:59 PM
Great Idea Jacon4 !!  Brownie point for you !!

Any good sales coming up !!  Its spring and usually thats when they get going !!
Title: Re: Antique Clay Vessel Origin
Post by: jacon4 on March 19, 2017, 12:04:17 AM
In the furniture world, hasn't been anything really outstanding that i have seen so far this year. Sometimes it's like that, sloooooooooooooow so far but, you never know what's comin round the corner.
Title: Re: Antique Clay Vessel Origin
Post by: DANTE5 on March 19, 2017, 05:45:26 AM
Thank you jacon4...I needed that reference, I needed help finding such a place, GREAT!  thanks.

On the furniture circuit.  I went dumpster driving the other day to retrieve a table I saw.  I don't believe it's antique, but it is unique.  Heavy carved wood? with bronze statues of a Venus figure as legs.  I will be happy to share it you are interested in seeing the table Jacon4. (it is painted in a gold metallic color.)
Title: Re: Antique Clay Vessel Origin
Post by: mart on March 19, 2017, 07:31:02 AM
Well,, I want to see it !!
Title: Re: Antique Clay Vessel Origin
Post by: jacon4 on March 19, 2017, 08:21:35 AM
Sure, post away, let's see it or it is pic above?
Title: Re: Antique Clay Vessel Origin
Post by: DANTE5 on March 19, 2017, 10:13:41 AM
Pictures of table.....
Title: Re: Antique Clay Vessel Origin
Post by: DANTE5 on March 19, 2017, 10:16:39 AM
more table pics....
Title: Re: Antique Clay Vessel Origin
Post by: Skinny on March 19, 2017, 10:45:53 AM
THAT was in the dumpster?! Good find!
Title: Re: Antique Clay Vessel Origin
Post by: DANTE5 on March 19, 2017, 06:36:23 PM
Yes....I was driving and passed by it and made a turn around...Open up the hatch and loaded in my car.  I am not at home at the moment to take the measurement but I guest it approximately 5 1/2 feet by 3 feet at the widest point.
Title: Re: Antique Clay Vessel Origin
Post by: KC on March 19, 2017, 10:39:44 PM
Wow!  Nice find....I would have slammed the brakes and peeled rubber going backwards to get it!  Soooo interesting!
Title: Re: Antique Clay Vessel Origin
Post by: DANTE5 on March 25, 2017, 08:14:03 AM
Jacon4....GREAT reference! (Crocker Farm Stoneware) I submitted the inquiry with photos..awaiting reply.  I'll update you when I hear something.  I am considering ordering a catalog of a Auction being held 3/25/17 (Today).  Thanks again!
Title: Re: Antique Clay Vessel Origin
Post by: mart on March 25, 2017, 11:19:18 AM
looking forward to hearing what they say !!
Title: Re: Antique Clay Vessel Origin
Post by: jacon4 on March 25, 2017, 03:28:21 PM
Yeah, glad it worked out! Crocker probably had an old piece of furniture that i was interested in, that sometimes happens when a specialty auction house gets an odd piece for them, i registered for that sale and BOOM! from then on they send emails/fliers for every sale they have. I'll be interested to in what they say about your jug.
Title: Re: Antique Clay Vessel Origin
Post by: DANTE5 on March 30, 2017, 10:30:55 AM
Well the Crocker Farm VERDICT is in.....See below..


Thanks a lot for your photos and my apologies for the delay in getting back to you--we have been really tied up with our March 25 auction. I am not sure about the exact origin of your two pieces, but for examples like this, the value would tend to come mainly from the glaze, unfortunately. So without colorful glazes that are aesthetically-pleasing, regardless of origin, these would not tend to have a great deal of value. But thanks again very much for considering us with these and sorry we can't help further with them.
Title: Re: Antique Clay Vessel Origin
Post by: jacon4 on March 30, 2017, 12:48:45 PM
Alrighty then, a nice way of saying no value.
Title: Re: Antique Clay Vessel Origin
Post by: mart on March 30, 2017, 03:05:49 PM
Darn,, Thats no help !!  But I can loan you my paint and brushes !!
Title: Re: Antique Clay Vessel Origin
Post by: jacon4 on March 30, 2017, 03:28:29 PM
Darn,, Thats no help !!

Well, i wouldn't say that it was no help, they know their field pretty well i am guessing, what that kind of pottery sells for & for how much. It was more like, not good news is all.
Title: Re: Antique Clay Vessel Origin
Post by: DANTE5 on March 30, 2017, 03:54:02 PM
Mart....I am intrigued by the emai ;D.  I searched online to take a look at the glazed jugs they had as examples. It seems that the Multi Glazed Redware is in high demand.  It may be a long shot though. I found a piece of Multi-Glazed Redware the I have.  I am considering sending photos to them for more information what do you think?  The Multi Glazed listed with Crocker Farm prices are very attractive :)


Title: Re: Antique Clay Vessel Origin
Post by: mart on March 30, 2017, 06:10:51 PM
Thats a nice redware jug !!   I would give it a shot !!  How big is it ??
Title: Re: Antique Clay Vessel Origin
Post by: DANTE5 on March 30, 2017, 06:18:52 PM
Mart...It's 6" tall by approximately 4 1/2".  I saw a 6" example on Crocker Farm's website (Redware Multi Glazed) not the same as this one put it sold for $18,000.00 (WHEW!!!) I only wish ::)

http://www.crockerfarm.com/stoneware-auction/2017-03-25/lot-18/Important-Redware-Ring-Bottle-att-Rudolph-Christ-Salem-NC-c1800/
Title: Re: Antique Clay Vessel Origin
Post by: mart on March 30, 2017, 07:37:48 PM
I know !!  I looked at some of their past sales as  well as other auction sites !!  I almost croaked at the prices !!  Try yours and see what they say about it !!  I will cross my fingers and toes that yours will sell for that much !!  Many of theirs were unmarked but attributed to a known potter !!  Maybe they will know who made your jug !! 
Let us know what happens !!  Good Luck !!
Title: Re: Antique Clay Vessel Origin
Post by: KC on March 30, 2017, 08:52:02 PM
Wishing you well DANTES!  Let us know!
Title: Re: Antique Clay Vessel Origin
Post by: mart on March 31, 2017, 04:43:33 AM
Darn,, Thats no help !!

Well, i wouldn't say that it was no help, they know their field pretty well i am guessing, what that kind of pottery sells for & for how much. It was more like, not good news is all.

I meant no help in knowing where it came from !! 
Title: Re: Antique Clay Vessel Origin
Post by: DANTE5 on March 31, 2017, 12:16:38 PM
Okay!  I'll EXHALE! now.  What a fantastic Auction House! (Crocker Farm).  I followed though and sent my second inquiry to them concerning the multi glazed jug.  Well, the news was a little disappointing, however informative.  The jug (my jug) was described to me as possibly by the Cole Family in North Carolina circa about 1920.  The multi glazed redware made by the Cole's was mirrored to look like the late 19th century redware from Strasburg, Va.  I must say that the response to my inquiry was quick and informative.  Again...Jacon4, thanks for the tip.
Title: Re: Antique Clay Vessel Origin
Post by: mart on March 31, 2017, 12:59:43 PM
But you have a possible history to add to the description if you sell it !!  That alone can mean extra bucks !!  And you have a resource to ask if you find any more of these jugs !!
Title: Re: Antique Clay Vessel Origin
Post by: jacon4 on March 31, 2017, 02:29:30 PM
No problem! glad you are getting at least info about that kind of pottery. I myself have never bought a single piece of pottery of any kind and know absolutely nothing about it but am aware there is a very large collector base for those objects. Crocker has been around for a long time and it's a family run type operation which is not unusual in specialty auction houses, Pook in Pennsylvania & Garth's in Ohio come immediately to mind. Since Crocker handles that kind of pottery everyday, i am not surprised they know a great deal about it.
Title: Re: Antique Clay Vessel Origin
Post by: KC on April 02, 2017, 01:27:56 PM
Karma to you DANTES for getting back and letting us know what you found out.  It's a pleasure to have you on here!
Title: Re: Antique Clay Vessel Origin
Post by: mart on April 02, 2017, 06:51:01 PM
Yes and one from me just for posting some interesting stuff (table included) ,,wish I could make a find like that !!
Title: Re: Antique Clay Vessel Origin
Post by: jacon4 on April 03, 2017, 04:34:51 AM
I myself have never bought a single piece of pottery of any kind

I take that back! About 10 years ago, i was visiting a great aunt in San Juan Capistrano and purchased a piece of modern pottery in one of their toney shops along the ocean as a gift for her. :)
Title: Re: Antique Clay Vessel Origin
Post by: mart on April 03, 2017, 07:03:55 AM
I have never actively looked for pottery,,but I may start !!
Title: Re: Antique Clay Vessel Origin
Post by: DANTE5 on April 03, 2017, 07:25:05 AM
It truly involves a lot of studying, i.e. research.  So much history it can become overwhelming in your searches.  Very popular with collectors though.
Title: Re: Antique Clay Vessel Origin
Post by: mart on April 03, 2017, 08:19:40 AM
And prices seem more stable than other things !!