Antique-shop.com
Antiques! => Antique Questions Forum => Topic started by: mart on October 26, 2017, 10:22:45 AM
-
https://www.kovels.com/discussions/question/please-help-identifying-object.html
I have no clue !! About 4" X 1 1/2" !! Help !!
-
Mart, my first impression is that it is a carved soapstone or jade incense burner - for cone shaped incense.
-
And my impression would be that it might be a soapstone ink pot (sumitsubo sp?).
Yes, we need someone with knowledge to look at this.
-
I have to also agree with you Rauville that it could be used for that as well. Soapstone is such a widely used item in those cultures. They also had "brush washers" that were made out of soapstone and were around this size.
So far, 3 possibilities: incense burner, ink pot, brush washer...
-
Do not think a brush pot !! Its only 1 1/2 inches wide !! Would only hold a few drops of water and the brushes they use are pretty big but with a very fine long tip !! Soapstone incense burner is what I thought too but I am no expert !! Ink is a thought as well !!
-
I think it is a miniature version of a water pot like this one: http://www.arcimboldo.cz/en/auctions/chinese-art-antiques-3/katalog/3258/a-celadon-and-russet-jade-chilong-water-pot/ I guess it is some other stome trying to imitate Jade, and the carving is quite rough. My guess is that it is just a modern decorative piece trying to look old...
-
Mat, that is the style of a water pot (aka Brush Pot) for cleaning brushes. I figured it could be a small one for ink work and not painting with a large brush as well.
-
Hi Mart!
Do you know what the bottom looks like? Just kidding! I was curious to know the diameter of the hole itself and if the area of the opening goes all the way back to the wall of the item. I blew up a picture trying to see but is it unclear to me. Pic is attached....
-
Ahhh Ha !! Now I have SophieMarie wanting to see those bottoms !! ;D Let me post a link so the owner can see what you need !!
-
Bumping this post up,,new pics and sizes added !!
-
So...the entire piece is 7cm x 5 cm (2.76" x 1.97") with the inner hole is 2cm round x 7mm deep (.78" round x 0.28" deep)?
-
Not very big !!
-
I believe it could be an incense burner as well as Rauville's post about being used for ink!
-
I had to wonder what the creature was on this item but after searching around a little...I think it is the Chinese Li Dragon:
https://www.liveauctioneers.com/item/33167448_a-pair-chinese-hetian-jade-paperweight-carved-li-dragon
I asked about the diameter of the hole and height because I wanted to calculate the volume of liquid it would hold. So, thanks for getting that Mart!
The volume of the opening is approximately 0.134 cubic inches which translates to about 0.4 teaspoons. With that being said, I think the item is not ink pot, but rather an incense burner decorating with the Chinese Li Dragon.
-
LOL !! Mmmm,, You did say chocolate,, didn`t you ?? I think its an incense burner too !! Probably soapstone !!
-
Hi all thanks for looking at my item thought it would be easier to just register on here and post directly forgot to mention that the hole is 2cm at the opening but that the opening is only 3mm wide and underneath the opening it is actually a wider hole so on the inside the hole is actually 2.6cm dia instead of the 2cm dia which it is as opening. I also believe going by what i have read online about difference between jade and soapstone is that this is jade due to being translucent under bright light but i still maybe wrong not being the expert but my other question is if its jade what sort of price in current condition could it be worth. Thanks
-
Mart, have one of those new drones drop it at my doorstep please!!!
-
Lol belive me if i had a drone i would not be sitting on here way to much fun
-
Jack243 you need to read some of the other threads to get this one !! Glad to see you decided to join here !! While we can just go by the pics it does not look like jade to me !! But it does look like SophieMaries pics of the Li dragon !! Let Mat take a look since he is more familiar with this type of collectable !!The larger diameter inside the hole would be consistant with an incense burner as thy are triangular and larger at the bottom !!
-
In my opinion the beasts are Chilong. I still think this is a small water pot, here some old examples of similar size: http://elogedelart.canalblog.com/archives/2010/05/15/17901484.html
I do not know which stone it is made of, but I do not think it is old and it seems to be artificially dyed. Chinese incense burners have a different shape.
Mat
-
They would roll over in their grave if they saw what I use for a water pot !!
Evidently these are for writing with a tiny brush rather than painting ?? Both of the creatures,,yours and SophieMarie`s have similar features !!
-
Here are some ways to identify soapstone:
http://www.xmdragon.com/Industry_news/201204301328.html
-
SophieMarie, do you have any sources for what a Li dragon is? I tried to find something without success. A Chilong is a dragon without horns, and I would think that the animal from your link is also one...
Mat
-
Hi Mat,
Nice to hear from you! I don't have ONE link for the Li Dragon, but can tell you that there are many carved dragons out there that refer to such. Besides the one I listed earlier, here is another one:
https://www.invaluable.co.uk/auction-lot/chinese-hetian-jade-belt-buckle-carved-fortune-li-172-c-7794fb0963#
After seeing your comment about the Chilong Dragon, I did some poking around! It appears that the Li Dragon is a cat breed in China (Ha! I thought that creature looked like a cat). However, the name Chinese Li Hua and Dragon Li have been utilized internationally to reflect the symbolic nature of China relevant to the mythical Chinese dragon:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dragon_Li
And, furthermore; you are correct in saying that the "hornless dragon" is called Chilong:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chinese_dragon
Also, I did see your photos pertaining to the ink pots or wells. I too, saw the same thing with the shape, etc. And, I was on the fence between the ink pot and incense burner. All of the ink pots with dimensions given were taller than the one Mart gave us, but similar in size. So, they would hold an amount of ink that I found reasonable. Less than a half teaspoon of ink doesn't seem to make sense to me....what do you think?
-
Hi all thanks for looking at my item thought it would be easier to just register on here and post directly forgot to mention that the hole is 2cm at the opening but that the opening is only 3mm wide and underneath the opening it is actually a wider hole so on the inside the hole is actually 2.6cm dia instead of the 2cm dia which it is as opening. I also believe going by what i have read online about difference between jade and soapstone is that this is jade due to being translucent under bright light but i still maybe wrong not being the expert but my other question is if its jade what sort of price in current condition could it be worth. Thanks
Jackd243,
Hello and welcome to the forum! I wanted to make certain that I understand the measurements (see photo please). You are saying that the outside diameter of the hole is 2cm. And that as you go further down to the wall, the measurement across is 2.6cm. Please let me know if that is accurate.
Also, were does the 3mm come in? Did you mean 3cm?
Could you also please confirm height of the object? Thank you!
-
Hi sophiemarie the 3mm is the extra hole width under the lip so top of hole is 2cm which is like a lip and then inside the hole is an extra 3mm all the way round giving an internal diameter of 2.6cm
-
Hi have added a few more photos in better light to try and show natural colour of the stone and the dragons. Having read the article about testing i have no idea whos fingernails they use to test these stones but i know my fingernails do not scratch it.
-
Still looks like soapstone but appears to have been polished/varnished recently !! Too much of a sheen for what I would expect from jade or soapstone !! And looks like it settled in the low places of the carvings !!
-
Hi mart its not been polished the shine you can see on it in the low places and around the carvings is actually water where i didnt dry it properly lol
-
Ha !! Well,, shame on you Jack243 for not telling me it was wet !! :D I am just ribbing you so don`t take it seriously !! At least that explains the sheen !!
-
This cool little item may also have been used for balms , unguents & such .
(for skin , hair)
-
Hey there Fancypants !! Where have you been hiding ?? Haven`t seen you on here for ages (it seems) !! Glad to have you back !!
-
Hey there mart !
I keep skulking around here , but I'm usually far too late to post anything ,since all y'all are much quicker on the draw & active than this old guy !
Have been far too busy caring for a very sick person & that takes up almost all of the free time available .
Maybe next year I'll get back to being a 'regular' again ( I hope !!!) .
Best wishes to all !!
-
You have been missed !! Just don`t forget about us !! But I know that any one that is ill takes a huge amount of time !! Maybe you can pop in occasionally and at least say hello !! Great idea on the items use,, I would not have thought about that !!