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Antiques! => Antique Questions Forum => Topic started by: mart on January 23, 2018, 08:21:27 PM
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https://www.kovels.com/discussions/question/please-help-identify-this-characteristic-of-old-chair.html
Anyone have an idea what these metal things are ?? There is a button type release but they don`t do anything and are not attached to anything !! I thought maybe a late version of a Morris type chair that had been re-vamped over the years !! there is a close up of the metal thing if you scroll down !! They are identical and at the same place under each chair arm !!
Ideas anyone ??
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Were they for restraints ? Those are rather pronounced hand grips on the arms.
The back doesn’t look right.
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If that is a ¾” bevel that is cut into the outside edge of the arm then the metal mechanism may have been for adding a “temporary” extension to the width of the arm. Maybe for writing or eating purposes.
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It looks like the chair would have been associated with some kind of early 20th century institutional use.
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Certainly possible Ghopper !! I know the UK has had some speciality items made for invalids so perhaps this was one of those !! Weird thing is I can see nothing the button actually might do but it could have been for arm restraints and the button was the release !!
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It needs something to affix a "restraint" to ....... before there is a need for a "button" to release it.
And given the fact the mechanisms are underneath the chair arms, ....... whatever they do, ....... me thinks they have to be activated/deactivated from a standing position. ;D ;D ;D
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I think rather than a restraint, (this chair is not "industrial" enough for that) the button was to secure a tray across the front for eating, handicrafts, books etc.
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It looks like the chair would have been associated with some kind of early 20th century institutional use.
I agree; maybe could have been used at the local "County Poor Farm".
(http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-at7U-dT2Z58/UqywCDqeL-I/AAAAAAAAAiI/n2Rt-Va7utE/s1600/Poor-Farm-II-003WEB.jpg)
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Were they for restraints ? Those are rather pronounced hand grips on the arms.
The back doesn’t look right.
Ipcress and Grasshopper, I think you may be right on this one. I thought the same thing when I first saw the chair but didn't want to appear a bit "warped" in my idea, so thanks for stepping up first ha! You'll see there are scratches from wear under the chair arm (against the grain) if you look more closely. This also added to the idea of a restraint chair.
(http://)
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Wow, looking up poorhouse chair brought up some terrible results! The photo above looks much nicer than a lot of poorhouses were! My ancestor's brother ended up in the poorhouse/insane asylum in Preston NY in the 1880s. I read through the first hand inspection reports (state annual inspection) written during the time he was there and... sheesh. Terrible things. The place was run by a "keeper" who was absent on business 90 percent of the time leaving his wife and a young girl helper to take care of all the inmates, both poor and mentally ill. There were reports of people who were confined to cages, filth throughout, a woman strapped to a commode chair because otherwise she continually soiled herself and her surroundings and more. My ancestor's brother died in the institution of "heart failure" after just six months. He had outlived the family's ability to care for him and that was how he ended up there. He had been cared for first by his parents, then a sister who developed severe rheumatoid arthritis. Fortunately he died before the 1890s when the place burned and those inmates that did not perish in the fire went running loose. Local farmers tied them to trees to restrain them until they were rounded up. For more information look up Preston Poorhouse and Preston Poorhouse Fire.
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What a horrible end for your ancestor's brother. I empathize with him, and everyone else who ends up with nothing at the end of their lives.
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Many similar cases are just called "homeless" now !!
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Wow...just breaks my heart. I am so sorry to hear that Talesof!
There are many nursing homes/mental wards/juvenile centers that are still pretty horrific.
The wear appears to be on the underside towards the outsider edge of the arms. Could it possible have had small tables that attached to the outside? Such as "similar" to this one (I know this one has hinges tho') ?
(https://i.pinimg.com/564x/c0/1c/d0/c01cd0ebd16804d82bc0a52dae3d08f4.jpg)
Or have a table attachment such as one on older model highchairs that goes across the front?
If it was for binding/strapping - wouldn't the wear have come up over the edge and show wear there as well (and not just the underside)? I know they probably had to custom adapt items for invalids, etc.
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Thats what we are trying to figure out !!
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The wear appears to be on the underside towards the outsider edge of the arms. Could it possible have had small tables that attached to the outside? Such as "similar" to this one ?
(https://i.pinimg.com/564x/c0/1c/d0/c01cd0ebd16804d82bc0a52dae3d08f4.jpg)
Thanks, KC.
As the ole saying goes, ..... "Great minds think alike", ;D ;D to wit"
Reply #2 on: January 24, 2018, 06:22:10 AM »
If that is a ¾” bevel that is cut into the outside edge of the arm then the metal mechanism may have been for adding a “temporary” extension to the width of the arm. Maybe for writing or eating purposes.
KC, I searched for a picture like you posted but no luck at finding one.
You'll see there are scratches from wear under the chair arm (against the grain) if you look more closely.
Installing an “extension” to the side of …. or on top of the chair arm …… is surely what caused the “cross-grain” scratches.
And the “dark” stain on the underside of the arm is surely due to “water spillage” that was not wiped clean.
Water stain on untreated oak, to wit:
(http://www.woodweb.com/knowledge_base_images/zp/removing_black_stains_from_oak_1.jpg)
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I am thinking restraints were the most likely !! He posted more pics and this chair would have held an elephant !! Thise additional supports under the arm perplexed me,,then I saw that they were also added to the back legs and the rockers !! So anyone with violent tendencies would have stayed put and not broken the chairs !! It is made of much thicker wood than most as well !!
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I am thinking restraints were the most likely !! He posted more pics and this chair would have held an elephant !! Thise additional supports under the arm perplexed me,,then I saw that they were also added to the back legs and the rockers !! So anyone with violent tendencies would have stayed put and not broken the chairs !! It is made of much thicker wood than most as well !!
It would be interesting to see close up pics of those domes on the arms, if they were later additions to cover something.
If they were original, you could strap someone’s wrist over them if you wanted to cause them discomfort
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Could be but I had rather go with the gentle option of restraints to keep him or her safe !!
Did you see how that chair was made Ipcress ?? Extra bracing on arms and back ?? I worked in a nursing home many years ago and some of the residents there had to be restrained in a chair but not to that extent !! We had two gentlemen in the same room that regularly got into downright fist fights !!
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Could be but I had rather go with the gentle option of restraints to keep him or her safe !!
Did you see how that chair was made Ipcress ?? Extra bracing on arms and back ?? I worked in a nursing home many years ago and some of the residents there had to be restrained in a chair but not to that extent !! We had two gentlemen in the same room that regularly got into downright fist fights !!
"The Life and Times of Mart, Antique Lover" Sign me up for a copy! ;) ;D
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I hate this phone#! You should have been there chopper to help break it up!!
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Hey, I just got "smited." What's up with that? Who would do such a thing?
Looks like our Super Moderator stepped in and got rid of everybody's "smites." Thanks!!
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For what it is worth to all interested parties, the following is my learned opinion of the “rocking” chair in question. My comments will pertain to one or more of the included pictures.
I don’t know what the “official” name of this chair is so I will just call it a “ladder back rocking chair”. I don’t know what type of wood it is constructed from, but it has a “straight” grain and I am sure it is neither Red or White oak.
Please note that the front legs of the “rocking” chair extend up through the chair arms and the “tops” of the extended ends appear to have been covered with a wooden “cap”.
The arms are quite wide and the legs extend through the arms close to the “inside” edge of each arm, ….. which does NOT afford adequate “support” for the outside edge of each arm and therefore make the arms subject to “splitting” lengthwise (beginning at the “hole” in the arm), …… due to downward pressure applied to their outside “front” edges. To remedy the possibility of “splitting”, bracing has been affixed to the underside between the chair leg and the outside edge of each arm.
The thickness of the chair arms appears to be either ¾” or maybe 7/8”, but I do not think they are 4-quarters in thickness.
The underside of the arm appears to have a ¾” by ¼” (or 1/8”) bevel cut along the outside edge of the arm. If so, then the only reason I can think of for said “cut” is a positioning “stop” for an arm “attachment” (temporary extension).
On the underside of the arm there is what appears to be a “spring-loaded” mechanism that is mortised into the wood …… and is affixed in place by five (5) “flat-headed” small nails or large tacks, whose lengths are no more than ½” (because the arm thickness is only ¾”)
The mechanism includes a tin “strap” across the mortise that is held in place by two (2) nails and its purpose is to restrict/control the “spring” action of the mechanism when upward pressure is applied or removed and also prevents it from inadvertently being torn out of the mortise.
And given the fact that said mechanism is only held in place via use of five (5) small nails, and not screws or bolts, …… I seriously doubt that said mechanism was ever intended for “securing” restraints to, …… for immobilizing a “rowdy” person …… because even a frail 80 year old should have no trouble “jerking” those tacks out of the wood if their “restraints” are held captive by said mechanism.
Yours truly, ……. Samuel C Cogar
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OK !! So what do you think these are for ?? They do not extend farther than what you see,, just go in and out !! I do not see another reason for the extra supports !!
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I do not see another reason for the extra supports !!
Mart, there is only one (1) reason for the lateral arm “supports”, other than aesthetics of course, and that is to prevent the chair arm from “splitting” lengthwise.
When a person raises themselves out of an “arm” chair, especially a “rocking” chair, they will usually “grab” hold of the “outside” front edges of the chair arms, and via the palms of their hands they will apply SUFFICIENT downward PRESSURE on the chair arms to raise or assist in raising their body mass to a standing position. The heavier the persons is, the greater the pressure required.
With that PRESSURE being applied to the outside edge of the arms, that “lever” action puts extreme “stress” on the grain of the wood where the “hole” for the front legs have been drilled ..... which may eventually cause the wood to “split”. If the wood was Oak or the “holes” were in the center of the arms there would be no “pressing” (pun intended) need of “lateral” supports,
OK !! So what do you think these are for ?? They do not extend farther than what you see,, just go in and out !!
Mart, I truly believe they are part of a “non-binding” latching mechanism or “compression” latch ….. that applies the same principle as this “spring-loaded” cabinet door latch, to wit:
(https://s7g3.scene7.com/is/image//ae235?src=ae235/23002_P&$prodImageMedium$)
See picture below for the following ……
What I denoted as the “escapement dog” is firmly attached to the end of the denoted “leaf spring” …. and functions the same as the “spring-loaded” roller-bearing in the above picture.
And you are correct, Mart, the spring loaded “escapement dog” ….. just goes in and out (technically – up and down) of the mortised cavity on the underside of the arm.
And iffen it works the way I think it does, the arm “attachment”, whatever it is, will have a “projection”, ..... that when installed, ..... will compress the “escapement dog” and then the “dog” will hold it in place via a “hole” or “depression” in said “projection”. To remove the “attachment” it is just “pulled” away from the chair arm.
And it is extremely possible that I am 50% WRONG about what I stated above :'( :'( …… so use your own best judgement.
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Is there any wear on the knobs on the top of the chair toward the front? Any wear around the wood at the front where finger/fingernails would leave marks? The reason I ask is having been raised around elderly you see that as people age it takes more effort to move forward and then get the upward motion going for getting out of a chair.
My first impression for these was that it was for a hand to grip to pull forward and up in order to exit.
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Well Cogar !! 50% is better than nothing,,which is what my opinion is worth !! I really don`t have any idea of what they are for !! Just guessing that if someone was restrained the thing they would do is to grab hold of the arms, stiffen the legs and rock backwards !! therefore the extra supports on the back !! Back to the nursing home again !!
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I assumed that little strip of metal and nails were later
The other thing which made me think restraints was that those arm supports appear to be additions. It might not have been a restraining chair to begin with...
Difficult to tell without further pics etc
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Hey, I just got "smited." What's up with that? Who would do such a thing?
Looks like our Super Moderator stepped in and got rid of everybody's "smites." Thanks!!
Ghopper,, I may have hit the smite when trying to get the phone print large enough for me to read !! Sorry about that !! I need big print !!
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I assumed that little strip of metal and nails were later
The other thing which made me think restraints was that those arm supports appear to be additions. It might not have been a restraining chair to begin with...
Difficult to tell without further pics etc
Ipcress I said in an earlier post that the metal parts look to have been added later !! Perhaps the extra supports too as you said !!
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Hey, I just got "smited." What's up with that? Who would do such a thing?
Looks like our Super Moderator stepped in and got rid of everybody's "smites." Thanks!!
Ghopper,, I may have hit the smite when trying to get the phone print large enough for me to read !! Sorry about that !! I need big print !!
No problem. Actually, it spurred Ed to delete ALL of the smites for everyone, so it's all good!
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Going from a 15 inch screen to a 5 inch screen ain`t easy !! ;D
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A 5" screen? What did you get?
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Samsung galaxy. Have had it two years but I don't bave time to just sit and U with a phone. It puts letters in I do t even want. Ok you a. Decipher this. I hate usi g it.
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You made me giggle Mart with your typing. However, I feel your pain Gal!
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Good news!! Battery problem was nust a bad SIM card!! They are overnighting me another one!! Hopefully back to normal tomorrow!! Can't even say yippee without this phone changing what I type!!