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Antiques! => Antique Questions Forum => Topic started by: jbartlet on March 23, 2009, 11:13:43 AM
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Large oil painting on canvas. acquired at auction in Connecticut ~1975. Nobody has been able to help me (even specialists from Bonham's and Christie's).
Any leads would be great. Thanks.
http://i727.photobucket.com/albums/ww278/jbartlet/Signature.jpg
http://i727.photobucket.com/albums/ww278/jbartlet/Painting.jpg
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Trust me they can identify the Artist. what there saying to you is. it does not meet there requirement's for there auction. so your value would be in the $300.00 to $500.00 Dollar range. it's nice Injoy.
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Very nice picture. I have always found that paintings and prints with animals as the primary "subject" are very collectible.
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Well the family spent about $2000 putting a new frame on it about 10 years ago so I hope it's worth more than $300!
Also, I just got a phone call from a new person at Bonham's yesterday who is very interested and I will call her back today to talk about it.
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Your family spent $2,000. Dollars on a painting you know nothing about? if you decide to consign, watch the fee's because there going to be High.
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I do like the picture! Well Painted!
Can't say as I recognize the artist....hopefully Bonham's can at least help you out with that! Once you find out....do the research!!!! But, as B&d said, "Seller Beware" the consignment fees....ask for any/all fees they plan to charge - upfront - in writing...then compute it yourself so you are not shocked in the end!
Can't say as I would have spent that much money to reframe a painting unless I knew it was a Rembrandt....howeve r, if it has alot of family sentimentality....m any would find it plausible. If they spent that much money...they must have had some restoration done to the picture?
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It was probably cleaned. but it is very large - 6ft x 4ft approx. and maybe they paid too much too : )
I went to the auction houses because I thought they'd put some good research into it. I honestly don't think we will sell it. I just really want to know something about it, anything!
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Even help with what you read the initials to be would be a start.
I read them as D E L or L E D. I'm 99% sure the middle initial is an E.
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Nobody has any ideas?
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There is approximately 500 listed artist's with the Initials LED & 500 with the initials. DEL and that's going back a couple of hundred years.
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The experience I've had with frame shops is for a painting that large, $2000 is about bargain basement. :o
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it's my understanding, the family spent $ 2,000.00 to frame a painting that no one can identify? Bonham's christies etc refuse to consign? or apparently to even suggest a value.
Which in turn indicates a value of less than $ 500.00 for there auction purposes.
KC Cogar iron lord Tim railman what do you think? Texas Badger we welcome your comment's too.
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I'm not sure anything I add will be of much value added ;D. I do know lots about frames and making them. In the middle ages when I was a much more active photographer I made my own frames and matte boards for my work. I still have all the tools and sometimes get to do consignment work doing this. Let me say anyone want to pay me 2 grand to make them a frame bring it on. Cost me at the most $100.00 for a fancy gold frame with UV plex, leaving me plenty left over to ship it.
All this aside, remember the frame is there to augment the image. When you spend lots to have it frame remember this. The image is the important part not the frame. I work my 9 to 5 in a image display company, right now I am mounting images in between typing this and watching for the boss :P
So the base line is never spend that much to frame something unless it is worth 10 times the value of what you are about to frame, 2 grand your image better be worth 20 grand. Or something really special. Before going to any frame shop, check out any local graphic places or even local photographers they can do it for much cheaper, or just look me up,
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My gut feeling tells me it is a good painting, probably 19th century. And at 6ft x 4ft makes it kinda museum quality. Not many artists painted pictures that size. And being that large a painting it may have come out of an old mansion/estate in Connecticut. One has to have large rooms withh tall ceilings to hang such a picture.
In the 19th, early 20th century, artists were often "invited guests" to spend the summer at such estates when the family moved there to escape the "heat of the city". They were expected to paint pictures for their keep.
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Jbartlett - did I miss it or didn't someone else call you from Bonham's and if so what did they say?
I agree that the size is very well a larger one than most people would buy which leads me to believe it was in a larger home - otherwise it would appear "dwarfed" in the rooms.
I am just leery due to the fact that the auction houses have rejected it at this point...not leery that it is a bad painting because it definitely is a gorgeous one - but leery of the value being high dollar. However, they have been known to reject items that are selling under a couple of thousand. These days....I am not sure that they can afford to do so with the economy as it is.
I am sad to say that I do believe the family overpaid to frame it....but the sentimental value is there. Too bad the story behind the painting wasn't recorded and listed on the back.
Okay, if you follow the natural lines of the signature it appears to me a fancy DG?The formal/capital cursive D appears up/down and then evolves into a formal/capital cursive G slighty tilted to the right! My scanner isn't working now or I would be able to scan the letters out in different colors.
Speaking of traveling artists...they do still exist. I have several friends that have had artists come and paint huge murals on their walls for little pay monetarily as long as they can bunker down in their homes while traveling through the state.
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All the best.
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Jbartlett, what I suggest you might do is a Google search for Historical Societies in the North East for those who are willing to answer questions and E-mail them a picture of your painting. Oftentimes, antiques are only valuable to small select groups such as local Historical Societies.
Your painting might be great and wonderful but if the artist isn't well known or doesn't have "broad appeal" those large auction houses won't touch it.
Other paintings are valuable because of the subject or location, reguardless of who the artist was. For example, go to Google "Images" and search on "paintings Trenton Falls", Catskills or Hudson River Valley.
One never knows, the more queries you send out, the luckier you might get.
And here is one you can start with, to wit:
http://www.chs.org/feedback.htm
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Sorry Cogar.. looks like we have a jokester on our hands. He changed the post. (I removed the link he left.)
regards, Ed
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Thanks for the awesome monitoring dontbe!
Good info cogar...don't want jbartlett to lose hope over an auction house! Can keep hoping for a fulfilling $$ value...and in the end....irregardless of the first.....a rewarding sentimental value!
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Thanks for all of the feedback.
#1 - the framing cost was a rumor - i don't doubt it and I didn't pay any of it so I don't really care but I agree they probably got ripped.
#2 - someone from Bonham's did call me back, but they wanted to see the painting in person since they "frequently travel to my area" but it's in my relative's house across the state and they're not that interested in having a stranger in their house... so it goes. I'm trying to get new pictures (close-ups of the person, cows, house, etc) to maybe have a trained eye identify something. I'm at a bit of a standstill now though.
#3 - the idea about the traveling artist in some mansion along the coast is an excellent thought and probably true. realistically it could be from anywhere between NYC and Boston and at some point settled half way with someone who didn't have a big enough room for the thing. Though, the first person from Bonham's thought it was most likely British and that if it were American it would be an exceptional find. So I'm still hopeful.
#4 - I did a brief try with historical societies, and a small museum but I should try them more seriously.
#5 - and back to the monogram - I agree with the D/G combo. there are just so many options. and the longer this goes the more i think that it must be a really obscure artist.
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I think it's american. a close up of the tree's. the child and the dog setting in the shade tree etc can all be clue's to identify the picture. the lower symbol has the appearence of a masonry symbol.
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Good catch DB, that sure looks like a mason symbol to me also.
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Someone else (another place) offered the masonic symbol thought also. I thought it was just how the artist did the E in the monogram. Is there a source for research masonic-related artists? If it is masonic does that point to being American or British any better?
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I should have suggested you try : artistssignatures.c om to attempt to I.D. your "unknown" artist
much earlier than today .
There's a large database of monograms , signatures & so on ( free to search , but specific info costs $ there ) .
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Thanks for that site! I have done a lot of googling and come across that guys name for his books but somehow didn't ever see that site.
I browsed through pretty thoroughly and didn't see anything though.
I'm beginning to give up hope.
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Sometimes it's dead-end after dead-end , when researching ...I'm sure you're experiencing this , jbartlet .
To me , the cool part of it is finding out where NOT to look .
It narrows the field down .
Have you considered showing up at a local Masonic Lodge ( with give-away print-outs of all of your data ) and asking for their help ?
There are also several Mason-art related websites that might be of assistance .
Masons/Lodges do often keep records of their members , living & dead ... perhaps they could help I.D.
I had one oil painting that I spent 3+ years researching , before I found out anything .
I've also had several that wound up as 'unknowns' , as well as a few real 'winners' .
I wound up learning alot about what I didn't know .
Maybe just giving yourself a break , instead of giving up hope , might be a way to go ?
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jbartlett....don't give up hope....the hunt is an adventure and like regularjoe2 said leads you to many places of where not to look (which come in handy for something else later in life) many that can be fun (like this site)!
Still a classy painting!
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I spoke to some of the elder family members and the story is that the painting was in the attic of an old house in New London, CT that was being sold and we had the fortune of being able to see the art and buy it. Apparently there were "a bunch of old big paintings" but we only got one.
The $2000 're-framing' (what I was told before) was a cleaning and restoration. The frame is original, just re-touched/gilded.
...I wonder what the other paintings were like.... sigh....
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Hi Jbartlet, first, I'm sorry I won't be of much assistance (mainly because I don't know hardly anything about oil paintings), but I would agree with the posts concerning the masonic symbol. That's what I guessed at first as well. I do, however, know how you feel about giving up ;) And I also understand the annoyance of wondering what happened to the other paintings (My grandparents had hundreds of marble, Sotheby's quality French furniture pieces that were just taken from the house when they died by who knows whom).
Anyway, back to the important stuff :) I would guess that the paintings were done by the same artist, and I would think that they are indeed American, especially since there were so many. That's about the extent of my knowledge on this subject, but I wish you luck! And like others mentioned, just keep looking for the signature. When the internet fails, there are tons of good books out there. Try searching www.abebooks.com for books on American paintings and artists if you are getting more interested in your unusual painting. Sure is beautiful! And most of all, concerning value, I think the 2k restoration was worth it. I honestly do. It has preserved the piece is great condition I assume and it is a family treasure surely to be enjoyed for a long time, even if it has no monetary value.
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I've started another thread about this on another site and have had some good discussion.
http://forum.findartinfo.com/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=5351
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Could you possibly get the address of the home in New London CT. Then trace all families who lived in the home. Maybe you could pick up on someone who remembers or bought the other paintings. Or call the Town hall , every town has a historian that knows everyone & just about everything about the town they live in. Good luck!!!