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Antiques! => Antique Questions Forum => Topic started by: regularjoe2 on May 15, 2009, 02:31:59 PM
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Hello everyone ....
I picked up this teapot at a local private estate sale , and I'm wondering if anyone here has seen one like it ( and has any idea of it's value ?) .
It is stamped 'solid silver' (in Japanese , on its bottom) , weighs about 18oz ; it holds 750ml , when filled to the lower seal for the lid .
There are 2 dragons entertwined around the main body of the teapot , one dragons' head & neck serve as the spout .
An ivory handle (approx.70mm long) is held in a fitting at 90 degrees , in relation to the spout .
The teapot is done in repousee , with the exception of the dragon heads on the spout & lid ( these are cast silver & are silver-soldered ) .
It's got great details and very nice workmanship .
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Please post a picture of the markings on the bottom!
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Sorry for not adding one ...
Here's the Jungin on the bottom of the teapot .
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Sorry about the last image .
Here's a higher resolution image of the Jungin on the bottom of the teapot .
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you've got and expensive tea pot. typically japanese silver run's higher than american. American 925 pure Japanese 950 pure Ivory Handle ?
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That is a Beautiful Piece very interesting My grandfather Brought back one almost identical to that one After World War 2 I will have to try and Get a Picture to Post of it
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Thank you everyone , for your comments .
I am not sure if the person in the previous posting was asking if it's got a pure Ivory handle or not ...
the handle is pure ivory . :)
I do know that the 'Jungin' symbol was used 1868 through 1912 ( and for a short time afterward ) in Japan ; in 1928 Japan required decimal Std. marks (eg.-.950 , etc.) on silver .
I am still wondering if anyone might hazard a guess on the value of this teapot ?
I've not been able to find one exactly like it anywhere , so far (+100 hrs. of research) .
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today's market. $1,500.00 to $ 2,000.00 Dollars.
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Thank you so much for your valuable input 'D&b antiques' , and for your time !
I don't mean to push my luck here , but oh well , what the heck ... ;
I have been considering putting this Kyusu up for sale , and am wondering where'd be the best market for such things .
I live in the Pacific Northwest , so I've been thinking - San Franciso or Seattle areas ( also , perhaps Japan or N.Y. City ) ... not too sure about on-line selling (I'm 'old school' there) either .
Again , I'm not trying to push the members (or the rules for postings) here , or tax their efforts ;
I'm just open to suggestions . I just don't know the 'markets' for this type of silver .
My gratitude and sincere thanks go out to everyone here !
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Typically the japanese are very eager Buyer's. of what they consider ''There's''
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Thank you for your sage advice , D&b antiques .
That's kinda what I've been thinkin' ! :)
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A little update on this info-quest about my teapot -
I got an email yesterday from an American in Tokyo who has the opinion that this is a Meiji Period (1868-1900ish) teapot .
He commented that the dragons on the piece are "water dragons" .
He also said that it was not so unusual to have such works left unsigned by the artist .
Many metalworks of this period were done by former samarai warriors , due to their 'business' being outlawed by changes in the governance of Japan .
Many of these samarai were not exactly proud of their 'change in status' in their society , although there were other reasons for leaving some of their metalsmithing artworks unsigned .
This fellow in Toyko said that he thought it might have been made by either : Y Konoike or Yukitru .
More leads for me to follow up on .
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Thanks for the update!
I just love the old side handled teapots. I have one that was used on an old navy ship many, many years ago.
To say the least yours is the better of the two! One of my best friends collects all things dragon....and is drooling over this!
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KC ... I'll keep an eye out for a dragon motif drool-catcher for your friend !
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KC ... I'll keep an eye out for a dragon motif drool-catcher for your friend !
LOL!
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Just being a pest & moving this back up to the current posts ...
Any of the newer members have any input about this one ?
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Wish I could help Regularjoe, but my silver knowledge is just figuring American Silverplate, I remember this post and was hoping more information came from it too. Tomorrow I will try and get a friend of mine to read the Characters on the bottom, This may help in concluding it. Hopfully this hasn't already been figured out and I have just forgot all the details of this post. Good luck, and thanks for reminding me of this post.
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Thanks ironlord ..
The mark reads 'solid silver' , in japanese .
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MMM see Crow again ;D
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Wow- very, very beautiful!
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Beautiful silver! I remember seeing a piece live this at Butterfield's I believe so I took a peak and couldn't find anything, but I definitely agree with D&b's estimate- I would have actually said a little higher depending on where it's sold of course. I think selling it on eBay is probably a mistake, seeing as it has a nice price tag, but possibly an online international auction? Sometimes the prices can go really high- esp. for Asian pieces. My suggestion would be sending pictures to a large auction house, like Sotheby's or Christie's and see what they say about selling with them. That is where you would get among your highest prices, and the value meats the minimum consignment.
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Thanks for your input , folks .
I should comment that the issue that I've been researching has to do much more with the specific history (ie - has anyone seen one exactly like this one , same artist , etc.) of the teapot .
Buyers are not the problem , really ... already had enough multiple offers .
I get pointy-headed about an item , time to time , as to it's history .
This one fits in that quirky catagory .
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If you don't mind me asking, how much did you get this beauty for. It is refreshing to here a nice success story every once and a while- especially since the last, oh, I dunno... FIFTEEN estate sales I have visited have been full of junk- or else everything was appraised and is being sold at $10-20 above market value. Even in this economy :|
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Well , luxetveritas , the story goes like this :
The person who was selling the estate was doing it solo & didn'y know the values of the antiques . People who showed up at the sale had only been interested in mostly 'new' stuff (except me) . He was asking pretty much give-away prices for everything ... we talked for awhile & I convinced him to show me everything antique he'd listed for sale .... I suggested/recommended prices for EVERYTHING .
I contacted friends & customers & sent them his way , resulting in quite a few thousand dollars more in his pocket that he'd even hoped for .
I also 'sold' a number of items for him , while at the sale , for 5x-50x what he'd priced them at .
I had began negotiating for the teapot on the first day of the sale , and the seller kept his word about holding it for me , until we were through negotiating for it .
I would visit him @ the sale about every other day (sale went on for 5 days) and continued bantering/assisting him (bought several things too) .
On the last day , I finally asked him what the lowest price that he'd be willing to take (and be 'comfortable') for the tea pot .
He stated a price & I told him that I was not comfortable with it and then offered 20% more . He laughed , we shook hands & that was that .
Let's just say that I bought this at 'below wholesale' , and did so due to 'other considerations' .
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That was a very kind thing for you to do! When I find sales like that- which is very seldom, I just buy everything I think I can make a profit on :| But I guess your generosity sure payed off! Wonderful piece.
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I can be nice , but mercenaries-r-us , sometimes , lux .
If you search 'Art History Mystery' here , you'll see the first thing that I bought at the sale .... advertised as 'Dutch Girls print' ....I paid the asking price , right away !
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Oh my god... I would have LOVED that estate sale!! I just searched for the "art history mystery" post and am flaberghasted! That is absolutely amazing! It is a nice print, but I am wayyy more interested in the price tag :) If I were you I'd be contacting Sotheby's France immediately. That is just amazing... after finding that painting I would have bought everything in that house! Holy... Well, I must say that kicks your teapot's behind :P Amazing... truly amazing... I think I'm actually more enticed with that story than you are yourself!! :P
I can't get over that... Well, I don't care HOW much you payed for that print- you've probably just made the biggest investment of you life. 75k euros on eBay= 75 million at Sotheby's/Christie's :P That just blows me away. One note though-- don't ever let the guy you bought the painting from find out. Not because he'll want it back, but because he'll die of being sick to his stomach. Lol, I STILL can't stop typing my amazement. That is by far the best treasure story I have ever heard. Way to go, Joe!! :D
--Lux
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The point of it all was that it is/was not a print , lux .
I am experienced in 'finding people' & am keeping track of the seller .... my intent is to give him a nice $$$$ surprise , after such time as I determine the right moment to put the painting on the market & actually sell the thing .
I can't argue about the fact that it was a pretty good 'score' , right up there in my top 10 .
BTW , lux - I paid $10.00 less for the painting , v.s. what the teapot cost ;D
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I like regularjoe's way of thinking. We all like making a good deal....but there are times that you know that the people are really being taking advantage of because of their lack of knowledge and....that they could really use the money. I have many times told people to raise their prices or advised them to sell them other places than a garage sale.
I know that I want that elusive perfect deal that brings in better than the last time.....but hope that I continue to keep myself grounded (like rj stated).
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I don't think there's anything wrong with watching them cringe when we come around ....
I'd just rather see them cringe for the right reasons !
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I have always made a promise to myself, that if I do find that one piece that is the real deal, when I do sell it I would give at least half of the profit back to the unaware seller. I have actually done this before when I made $3000 on a rare silver set that an old woman had to sell for surgery. I think that's what makes the greatest finds great- you get to see the happiness and amazement on the person's face when you tell them what their piece is and what it's really worth.
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Lux, we need more like you upon this world. I'm not so sure I could make that promise, but for a needy situation I may offer closer to real value. Wow is all I can say, makes me feel a bit greedy :-\
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Don't feel greedy, Ironlord :P I have walked away with some good gains before, trust me- and some of them I feel sort of dirty about. Usually though, it is only elderly people that I take so much concern for. I am very attached to people over 70 for some reason :) Probably because my grandmother died early and she, to this day, was the biggest influence in my life. "Old" people have so many stories... it's really interesting to listen to them talk too.
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A little update on this Kyusu :
After much research , aided by several friends in Japan , I've (they've , really) discovered that this item is actually a Choshi (Sake pot) , rather than a tea pot .
One Japanese collector believes that this item was from a 'high-end' location in the "Water Trade" industry (AKA the 'Floating World') .
Nothing solid to confirm this 'water trade' origin yet , though .