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Antiques! => Antique Questions Forum => Topic started by: Skinny on September 17, 2009, 05:31:35 PM
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OK, I bought this book off of Ebay for a song. I've always been interested in Charles V and sixteenth century history. The book is "Notices Of Charles V" by William Sterling, printed in 1856 for the Philobiblon Society of London. It is 56 pages long, and one of only twenty five copys. Its printed on some very nice hand made rag paper. The text incorporates the lower case "f" for the lower case "s", just like a work printed circa seventeenth or eighteenth century in England. The book claims to be the first printing of dispaches between the Emperor and his Venician ambassador that were before unknown to historians. It is ex-library, and has been (I believe around 1910 ) rebound by the library in rather a nicer binding than is usually the wont of librarys.
Now to its owners. There is an inscription on the title page that reads "From Mr. Sterling to Charles Sumner, then to George Livermore, Aug 1 '60." It is most definitely in Sumners handwriting. Charles Sumner was a famous abolitionist Senator from Boston, nearly beaten to death on the floor of the Senate by a Senator from NC prior to the Civil War. He was called by his peers "the least racist man in America". Livermore was a wealthy Boston merchant, Book collector , abolitionist, and amateur historian. He wrote a book about the contributions of free African Americans to society. It has been said a copy of his book was given to President Lincoln (by Sumner), who read it frequently while drawing up the Emancipation Proclamation. Lincoln then gave Livermore the pen with which he signed that historic document. Charles Sumner personally presented him with the pen.
I have no idea what this book is worth. Just as a book, it's so rare that there isn't one available for me to compare it to. I've read that Sumner was the only American to be taken to by the English intellectual society, so him being given this very limited run book would have been an honor, but makes sense. Him giving it as a gift to his rare book collecting friend and (campaign contributor?) also makes sense. At some point it was donated to the library who put it in their reference section. This wasn't one you could check out.
Would there be any significant provenance concerning the owners? I'm pretty good at valuing old books, but this one stumps me. Any help any of you could give me would be appreciated. Anyone who took the time to read all this is already my hero!
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I couldn't find a lot on it either. With the provenance you have, I would email photos or snail mail photos (whichever they prefer), along with provenance to Sotheby's, Christie's, Leslie Hindman, etc., high end auction houses and see what they have to say. They have specific auctions at different times dealing with historical documents as such. it takes time and leg work but the results can be worth the effort.
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As I'm sure you already know, a book of this rarity is easily worth thousands. Books limited to 500 printings, for example, consistently sell for over $1000. At a prominent auction house, this books (in my opinion) would bring at least $10k. However, that's just my opinion. The provenance of this book is what makes it stand out- although letters signed by Sumner would not bring over a few hundred. Hope this helps you a bit! And great advice Tim- the first place I would search for info is Sotheby's or Christie's.
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I would also look to them....they will verify info before they sell.....because they want to uphold their reputation. They continue....it is legit....they don't.....ask why!
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Thanks for your insight and advice. Only in my wildest Antiques Roadshow fantasies did I ever consider the possibility that this book could be worth any serious dough. I only paid ten dollars for it. Do you think that before I tried to sell it, I should contact the library and make sure that it was actually discarded, and not "checked out" under someones trench coat? I don't have any reason to believe that to be the case, other than the fact that it doesn't have a discard "stamp" in it anywhere. I've been to the libraries website, and this book isn't listed as part of their catalog.
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It may not have been cataloged by the library. It may have well been shelved and eventually sold at a library sale years later, eventually ending up in your hands. Call or email them if it clears your conscience though.
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Agree with Tim!
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I sent an email about this book to Leslie Hindman. They claim to have a two week turnaround time for valuations. Part of me hopes its worth a lot of money and they want to consign it for me. I always need the money. Another part of me wants it to be a low enough dollar amount that I can resist selling it. I love my books, what can I say?
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Good luck skinny, I actually hope it is worth $$$$$$.00 or so. That should make the choice easy ;D
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O.k. this is weird. I was searching the internet about this book and found an auction listing for it.
http://www.knottypineantiques.com/events/2007/oct27/listing.asp
[077] Stirling-Maxwell, Sir William. Notices of the Emperor Charles the Fifth, in 1555 and 1556; Selected from the Despatches of Federigo Badoer, Ambassador from the Republic of Venice to the Court of Bruxelles. London : Printed for the Philobiblon Scoiety, 1856. First Edition. 8vo - over 7¾" - 9¾" tall. Hard Cover. Ex-Library. Very Good Condition. LIMITED TO 25 COPIES. ASSOCIATION COPY : on title page is hand written "From Mr. Stirling to (Senator) Charles Sumner, then to (abolitionist) George Livermore. 1st Aug. '60 ." 58pp on laid paper, bound in 3/4 leather & marbled paper, binding & hinges tight. Library label inside cover, perforated & embossed mark on title page, perforated on Preface, embossed on pg 9, perforated on last page. Offsetting from leather salve. EST: $1,000.00 - $2,000.00
Is this an old auction or is it an auction coming up? What's going on here?! Anyway, it's the exact same book I bought off Ebay for ten dollars!
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It is an old auction from 2007. You can see the date in the URL. I would contact Knotty Pine and find out what the book sold for, or if it sold.
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It is an old auction from 2007. You can see the date in the URL. I would contact Knotty Pine and find out what the book sold for, or if it sold.
Oh, I see that now. I think I will contact them. If it did sell, and for anything near the estimated price, then somebody somewhere went quite a bit in the hole when it got sold to me.
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Wow, amazing and cool. Looks like a real winner in the making for you. Too bad for the seller on E-bay, unless they somehow aquired it illegally and it stumbled into you lap. Let's hope not, but the thought crossed my mind.
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Wow, amazing and cool. Looks like a real winner in the making for you. Too bad for the seller on E-bay, unless they somehow aquired it illegally and it stumbled into you lap. Let's hope not, but the thought crossed my mind.
That had crossed my mind as well, so I just went back and dug a little deeper into that auction website. I found out that the book didn't actually sell, but was "passed". I gather that means it didn't reach it's reserve price. If it had in fact been sold, I would definitely be thinking that something out of line must have happened between the time of the auction and the time that I acquired it, which wasn't more than a year or so. Perhaps someone was just throwing it out there to let it go for what it would. The layout of the listing looked very professional as I recall, they just didn't put the right sort of attention grabbing words in the headline. You know, words like "Association Copy", "Civil War", and "Abolitionists". You can't use the word "Rare" because booksellers on Ebay throw that one around for every common book ever to roll of the presses.
Would it have sold for it's desired price (or more) at Sotheby's or Christie's? I would say it probably would. I think the book it's self without the inscription might easily be worth what the Knotty Pine folks were estimating (to the right collectors), and then there's the provenance, which is good. It just takes three paragraphs to properly explain it's significance. Maybe no one wants to pay thousands of dollars for something, and then have to go home and explain to their spouse why its so valuable, and take five minutes doing it. It's just so much easier to buy a first edition of Walden and be done with it :P.
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Die hard collectors don't have to explain...their better halves are used to it and are most of the time doing the same with some other collection!
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I have no idea about rare book but want to congratulate you on your serendipity!
My great-grand uncle is named Charles Sumner Lewis, named after Charles Sumner.
My great-great grandpop was a fugitive slave who eventually became an abolitionist who helped and correspond with Frederick Douglas and William Lloyd Garrison. We have recently uncovered a collection of documents and more are on file in Boston. Seems that Boston and Philadelphia were quite central to the movement.
You have quite a treasure. You must be thrilled.
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Thanks for sharing Way2shg!
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Way2shg, my gr-gr-gr-great-grandfather was named Nathan Wait and he was the blacksmith for the town of Medford MA. He befriended a slave named Ceasar, (later Mr. Anderson) and led the whole town in rescuing Ceasar when he became a fugitive slave, attempting to escape his owner. You can read the story (about two pages, scroll past the portrait in the middle of the story) in the History of the Town of Medford at this link. It gives some really interesting insight into how slavery was viewed in New England at the time:
http://books.google.com/books?id=ASwWAAAAYAAJ&pg=PA356&lpg=PA356&dq=history+town+of+medford+nathan+wait&source=bl&ots=vruAyXjAa1&sig=ENFfL4BUoru-EUzf9AHmI-CAQGI&hl=en&ei=0mD8SpC8BJT0sQPs8LiVAQ&sa=X&oi=book_result&ct=result&resnum=1&ved=0CAoQ6AEwAA#v=onepage&q=history%20town%20of%20medford%20nathan%20wait&f=false (http://books.google.com/books?id=ASwWAAAAYAAJ&pg=PA356&lpg=PA356&dq=history+town+of+medford+nathan+wait&source=bl&ots=vruAyXjAa1&sig=ENFfL4BUoru-EUzf9AHmI-CAQGI&hl=en&ei=0mD8SpC8BJT0sQPs8LiVAQ&sa=X&oi=book_result&ct=result&resnum=1&ved=0CAoQ6AEwAA#v=onepage&q=history%20town%20of%20medford%20nathan%20wait&f=false)
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Tales,
That is incredible and something of which to be incredibly proud! Was this prior to the Underground Railroad? My gr-gr Grandfather came through MA before landing in NY. This would have been circa 1845, later than your gr-gr-gr-great-grandfather's work in the late 1700s. I did read that much of New England was very sympathetic, which is what allowed the movement to thrive. I once read a quote that if the townpeople saw someone on the road in the middle of the night, they would say "well, its either a doctor, a drunk, or a fugitive slave"....none of which seemed to bother them.
Here is part of my g/g/grandpop's story about 55% down the page - Oliver Cromwell Gilbert. See where Boston is noted. If you read the "itinerary" paragraph, you'll see why I want the music cabinet back. :)
Ok, enough from since I don't want to hijack skinny's thread! I am feeling excited for him :)
http://seacoastnh.com/arts/please083101.html
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Thanks for your interest :) I would be very proud to have a book that had only belonged to Charles Sumner, but to know that he gave it as a gift to his friend and fellow abolitionist George Livermore makes it even better. Livermore's contributions are not nearly as well known, but I think he did a lot for the cause in his own (behind the scenes) sort of way. The cost of being in politics at the time, and being so publicly outspoken on the issue, manifested itself when Charles Sumner was nearly beaten to death with a cane by a southern Senator.
The real blessing of my finding this book was definitely all the great history that I learned while researching it's provenance. Thanks Way2shg and Tales for sharing your stories!
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Thanks for enduring a bit of hijacking Skinny! Please pardon... I'm gonna do just a teeeeeny bit more! ;)
Way2shg, loved reading about your ancestor! Nathan Wait lived from 1763 to 1840. He was born in Malden MA to Nathaniel Wait and Phoebe Tufts (like the University) There is a bucket that belonged to him in the Sarah Bradlee Fulton room at Royall House Museum in Medford MA. But Nathan's story is not well-known. I think he's represented in the room because he was Sarah Bradlee Fulton's son-in-law, not because of what he did. (She is a fairly well-known female participant in the Revolutionary War) Here is a picture of the bucket, I think this is a fire bucket. Maybe someone here can tell me? It is a little hard to read, but it says A.F.S. at the bottom then the date 1810.
(http://i181.photobucket.com/albums/x124/talesofthesevenseas/NathanWaitsBucket.jpg)
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Just found my own answer- Here's a very similar fire bucket from 1806. FFS is Falmouth Fire Society so it looks like AFS is something similar.
(http://www.mainememory.net/media/images/450/75/6040.JPG)