Antique-shop.com
Antiques! => Antique Questions Forum => Topic started by: Dean Perdue on October 13, 2009, 02:35:09 PM
-
This is a 9 1/2" statue and I'm interested in trying to find more out about the maker, markings, and possibly the age.
Thanks
-
I'm bewildered why SACRAx was on the bottom of this....Sacrax was a priestess in The Moriad Refer to the web page at 395
http://books.google.com/books?id=qJsCAAAAYAAJ&pg=PA160&lpg=PA160&dq=Sacrax+the+jewish+priestess&source=bl&ots=DBFWsU9RiP&sig=YGHzlPLkXMDU5Yzm6mFLJPDXL5U&hl=en&ei=Wf_USpnxB-Optgf0mtHtAw&sa=X&oi=book_result&ct=result&resnum=5&ved=0CBoQ6AEwBA#v=onepage&q=&f=false (http://books.google.com/books?id=qJsCAAAAYAAJ&pg=PA160&lpg=PA160&dq=Sacrax+the+jewish+priestess&source=bl&ots=DBFWsU9RiP&sig=YGHzlPLkXMDU5Yzm6mFLJPDXL5U&hl=en&ei=Wf_USpnxB-Optgf0mtHtAw&sa=X&oi=book_result&ct=result&resnum=5&ved=0CBoQ6AEwBA#v=onepage&q=&f=false)
-
Hmmm... I guess this is why there were no results when I googled Sacrakj.
I don't really understand either.Isn't this a item representing Christianity??
-
We may have to impose on our German expert Chris Marshall. have'nt seen him here lately because he's busy.but alway's welcome.
-
It looks to me like two words, SACRA meaning "Sacred" in Latin. Then x1 is perhaps some sort of a marking code. Notice how much smaller the x is than SACRA.
-
Great info Tales.
Looked into this word some more and found this link about mauscripts that shows some abbreviations after the word Sacra.
http://www.skypoint.com/members/waltzmn/NominaSacra.html#Fn2
I thought, although a longshot, the 7th one down meaning 'the lord' might be a possibility.
Thanks for that input,as I don't think I could of ever figured that out without it.
-
Looks to be a Hummel mark.....large bee inside a "V". These marks can be dated here:
http://74.125.93.132/search?q=cache:QqqLDpXQiXMJ:www.antique-hq.com/find-out-the-value-of-your-hummel-figurine-322+hummel+sacra+hm+33&cd=1&hl=en&ct=clnk&client=safari
Still searching for the HM 33 reference ;)
Though there's likely someone here who actually knows WHERE to look. :D
-
Oops, maybe, maybe not.........
http://www.onlinecollectibles.com/dublerfigurines.htm
"During World War II the Nazi government did not allow the Goebel company to carry on production of Hummel figurines. During this period a New York firm known as Ars Sacra (a subsidiary of todays Ars Edition in Munich) produced a small collection of figurines very much like the original designs and others in the Hummel style, but not copying any particular design. Those that were Hummel copies usually bore a 5/8 x 1 inch foil sticker. They often also had "B. Hummel" and either "ARS SACRA" or "Herbert Dubler, Inc." associated with the signature. Either version was usually incised into the top or side of the base of the figurine. Frequently a copyright date also appears in the same area. In Wonsh's guide Hummel Copycats more than 20 of these Dubler figures are pictured. His research indicates the possibility that 61 of these figures were designed and perhaps made.
Most Dubler pieces were made of a chalk-like or plaster of paris-type substance, but a few were rendered in bronze and some have even been found cast in silver. They were ostensibly distributed in the United States by the Crestwick Company of New York. Crestwick later became Hummelwerk, an old U. S. distributing company owned by Goebel. They evolved to the present Goebel operations in the U. S.
Another name associated with Dubler was "Decorative Figurines, Inc." These figurines, also made of plaster of paris, were almost exact copies."
-
Thanks for looking Sapphire.
At least I'm learning something here.
Heres a little closer photo of the marking
Trying to get a good photo showing the details in this small maker's mark isn't going too good as you can see.
-
Thanks Sapphire...I knew that looked like a Hummel marking...and also knew it wasn't a Hummel!
Knew there was more to the Sacra x1....but had to go with it at that time! :)
-
(http://i158.photobucket.com/albums/t98/geeziesmom/IMG_1142.jpg)(http://i158.photobucket.com/albums/t98/geeziesmom/Hummel_Age_Guide.jpg)
The same, but not ??
Looks like a possible knockoff but still with some history. ;)
-
White Madonna #45/0 Hummel
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rvr_id=1221649149&campid=5335880415&toolid=10001&ext=380166304390&type=2&item=380166304390#ht_600wt_941
Listed as Hummel Madonna HM 33
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=320433228871#ht_500wt_1182
This is the only reference to HM 33 that I have found....... all other Madonna's listed as made by Hummel have a model/size mark as in the first link.
The appearance and the bee/V are deceptive.
-
Sapphire Have I mentioned you rock, If not you rock ;D Glad you are here.
-
;) Just havin' fun ironlord
-
Thanks for those links Sapphire.
So what are you thinking? Is this a hummel?
The bee logo is close but your comment on "the appearancebee/V being deceptive" and KC's mentioning "I knew that looked like a Hummel marking...and also knew it wasn't a Hummel" has me still unclear on that.Also not too sure what a HM33 is or stand for.
The 2 linked examples on ebay seem to have West Germany on them.Is it possible this example is before or after a W.Germany?
-
I'm far from knowledgeable with any of this but from what I read from the link above from Onlinecollectibles it would appear this is a form of copy. The name Sacra is associated with these. Also, looking closely at the bee/V the bee on yours seems more articulated than that of the actual Hummel marks.
From this and the fact that all the searching I have done for a Hummel HM 33 mark only returns to that site or searching for a Hummel madonna brings up a **/* type mark leads me to believe yours is not actually produced by them but possibly by Ars Sacra around the period of WWII.
Like I said I have no experience in this field other than what I have been learning my short time here. :)
-
Seems like your right Sapphire.
The marking not being exact and the name Sacra makes it look likely.
Great work in coming up with all this great and interesting information.
Thanks
-
Okay....eating crow....Hummel did make Madonnas similar....can't say it made this.
According to this site (half-way down) there are many questions about similar.....and it is suggested it is Goebel! http://www.onlinecollectibles.com/faq/hummels.htm (http://www.onlinecollectibles.com/faq/hummels.htm)
and the most interesting http://www.thathomesite.com/forums/load/antiques/msg090257222183.html?3 (http://www.thathomesite.com/forums/load/antiques/msg090257222183.html?3)
Also, Replacements LTD does list a Madonna (which I did know about) but she is "Flower Madonna" and is extremely elaborate in intricate work!
ALSO here's another one like yours http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=320433228871 (http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=320433228871)
-
Thanks KC
I looked at quite a few Hummel 'Full Bee' markings, some with Germany and some W.Germany, and have yet to see this bee marking with the Sacra-?? mark included too.
Also tried searching ebay for the Sacra marking but got no results.
From the link Sapphire supplied on Sacra it stated:
A New York firm known as Ars Sacra produced a small collection of figurines very much like the original designs and others in the Hummel style, Those that were Hummel copies usually bore a 5/8 x 1 inch foil sticker. They often also had "B. Hummel" and either "ARS SACRA" or "Herbert Dubler, Inc." associated with the signature. Either version was usually incised into the top or side of the base of the figurine. Frequently a copyright date also appears in the same area.
So, what confuses me is why doesn't the item in question have the ARS before Sacra?
Also if this was a New York firm, why the 'Germany' mark on it? Plus no evidence of a sticker or no incising on top or side of base.
Throw into this, Tales of the 7 seas point of the word Sacra meaning sacred.
I thought sounded logical being a religious item, and why not this maybe being the works title/name.
Then I read this:"12 variations of the Bee marks, but some are grouped together as the differences between them are not considered particularly significant"
Is it possible the HM33 could have to do with 1933, six years before WWII?
-
Hi everyone, I have been following this post because we have several religious figurines and I'm trying to learn as much as I can about them. So I started going through them and, lo and behold, we have one of the Hummel flower madonnas. Its a 10/III model, 11-1/2" hi with the small bee mark. Probably made in the 1950-60 range. It's amazing what you can learn on this site. Thanks.
-
Thats a nice looking statue Syl.Thanks for the chance to see it.
How great it is after you've learned about these things with all the unselfish help from forum members,and then look at an example like yours and know exactly what your looking at.
I had no idea before I posted that Hummel even made a modonna statue, let alone any idea's of this company's logo's,markings,dates, or history.
About religious antiques, I always thought that there are many unappreciated and undervalued items in this area of collecting,some passed down for generations then sold on ebay for 10-20 dollars.
I always liked the ones with the Christ child with Modonna,St.Christopher,Joseph,ect..., so your Modonna was a pleasure to see.
-
Sly you Flower Madonna in Hummels hay day would have sold for over $470.00 pray for the hummel markets return!!!
Hummel did produce Madonnas with & without halos in white overglaze. They were part of the original 46 figures released in 1935 at the Leipzig fair. Markings are very confusing. These were confused at the factory also as mold #s appear on the wrong piece even sometimes with both mold #s on one piece. this is due to the two pieces are identical without the halo which is an add-on piece during assembly. The body is from the same mold & mold #s are impressed after assembly but before firing. At least nine legitimate variations have been found. unfortunately I have found no variations like yours Dean.
-
Appreciate you looking Wendy177.
It really makes no difference to me if this is Hummel or not but I like to know the maker and history if possible on a item.
Sad to read about these things and maybe antiques in general losing interest with the next generation.
I think the ease of getting these through the internet kind of killed their $ value some.
It used to be searching antique shows and shops or talking with close knit fraternity of collectors who specialized in this was the way to acquire these things,but no more.
Unfortunately seems as quite a few collectibles values have tanked when the market went online.
I was told before only buy what you truly like regardless of value for this very reason.It seemed like good advice to me.