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Antiques! => Antique Questions Forum => Topic started by: hosman321 on December 17, 2009, 03:42:16 AM
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So, I bought this little picture about a year ago. I'll admit, I didn't buy the other one because I was cheap. I know better now, always buy the set! I just got this one cause she looks just like me. I know these aren't really worth much but I had a couple quick questions.
The guy at the antique store told me the picture itself is from about the 20's. But that the frame is probably from the 50's, it's not the original one. Kinda confusing cause the square around the velvety material perfectly matches the frame. Were these made in the 20's? It's glued with some shiny stuff to a cardboard-type backing. Lots of fading and cracking on the exposed part of the picture, but not on the part that's been covered. Is it worth the $20 I paid? It's about 6"x6". Thanks for any input!
By the way, my camera makes everything look brand new, no matter how old it is. The velvet is not bright at all, it's very faded. The frame is not that new looking. It's nice having a very good camera, but in this case it's a little annoying!
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One more.
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That is a pretty fancy frame to be from the 50's. Me thinks it is as old as the picture. And besides, those are the large size window glass "glazing tabs" holding the picture in the frame.
And what is that key "thingy" in the bottom picture?
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There used to be more of those little metal tabs holding the picture in. But some idiot woman at Michael's threw most of them in the trash when I went to ask about finding a different frame. She also ripped the old paper off the back and put tape on the back that won't come off now without ripping the back off. We won't go there! Are those metal tabs new anyways, so it doesn't really matter? Or were they old? They were under the paper, so I don't know.
And about the key thing, do you mean the hook to hang the picture? I just took that pic to show the patent number from the frame. :)
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I'd submit a guess that your frame is from the 1940's ... those metal tabs are actuall called 'window points' and loosing them to the 'framer' is not exactly a big deal , although a Pro would have kept them for you .
It's a shame the paper backing was destroyed , though , as sometimes info is printed/written on it .
Although I do some of my own framing , I think it's best to take such items to an experienced pro (like ironlord1963) , not the run-of-the-mill framers .
Many items have been framed with older , acidic elements & will destroy/damage artwork over time .
I always consider the cost of re-framing/matting/etc. when buying an older framed item .
Window points are still used today , although they're smaller than the ones on your frame , and are used to install window glass in wood window frames with a staple-gun type tool .
In actual $ value , I'd say the frame alone was worth your $20 .
Also , you're not alone , in having a less than favorable experience with such retail framers .
Earlier this year , while my 'usual' & excellent framer was away to Europe on an extended vacation , I tried a local chain-type-framing-shop that advertised "Museum Quality framing" .
I had sold a watercolor that I needed to deliver to the buyer in a week ... all I really needed was some acid-free matting cut , to replace the existing one .
I ordered the cut (with an exact diagram & measurements) & color/texture matting I wanted .
It took them 4 days longer than the time promised , it had been cut six (yes , 6 !!!) times & still was not right ... I wound up paying for the mat'ls & brought it home (disgruntled , to boot) , cut it right & it took me a few mins. to do .
Never again !
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Okay tiquers....
The "key thingy" that cogar was referring to is a hanger and was invented in 1933 http://www.freepatentsonline.com/1914951.html (http://www.freepatentsonline.com/1914951.html)
I am gandering that this is from mid to late 30's from what I have seen, I would put the value at $15 - $20.
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Also , you're not alone , in having a less than favorable experience with such retail framers .
I ordered the cut (with an exact diagram & measurements) & color/texture matting I wanted .
It took them 4 days longer than the time promised , it had been cut six (yes , 6 !!!) times & still was not right ... I wound up paying for the mat'ls & brought it home (disgruntled , to boot) , cut it right & it took me a few mins. to do .
Never again !
Yeah I know exactly what you mean.
Want something done right you do it yourself unfortunately.
Car care, Home improvement, Framing, and just about any services that are offered are usually a disappointment and have incompetent help that could care less about your item and are just there putting there time in.
The marketing and catchy commercials go only so far and after a few times of this crap over and over you learn.
Hosman321, You look like that for real?
If so your pretty hot. :o
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The "key thingy" that cogar was referring to is a hanger and was invented in 1933
OK, I went back and looked again and that time could see the flippy-do "ring" for hanging it on a nail. And the holes in the bracket is where it was "punched through" to create a projection (sorta like a "leather rivet") for driving into the wood.
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Thank you for showing me that patents website, I've been lookin' for a site like that. I'm headed out the door but I wanted to say thanks for everyone's advice and input!
And yes, unfortunately you do have to do everything yourself these days. Not only so it is done correctly and to your liking, but so you do go broke getting ripped off in the process. Neither my husband nor I are very handy at all so we end up having to pay someone to do everything for us. We'll learn more over time. :(
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Patents are also available directly from Google home page...on the top menu go to 'more' with the little down arrow...go down to 'even more' and open that up and from the list that appears, there is one called "Patent search".
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wwdangler....thanks for that information...didn't know that one...will try sometime!
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Bringing up this super old thread because I am still curious about this litho. The frame was made in the 30s by the patent number on the hook. I just figured out that this is a picture of Jeanne Antoinette Poisson or "Madame de Pompadour." She is just very Victorian-ized in my picture. I would still like to know how old this little litho is and when it was printed. The antique store guy did say that the picture is older than the frame. This person has the exact same one as mine, seems that neither of us can find info!
http://www.askmehelpdesk.com/art/boucher-litho-madame-pompadour-203893.html
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Very pretty picture! I notice there is a signature/writing at the bottom, what does it say?
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It kind of looks like she is wearing the same outfit as this portrait:
http://www.nationalgalleries.org/collection/artists-a-z/B/2808/artistName/Fran%C3%A7ois%20Boucher/recordId/4698
What do you think?
Francois Boucher did the painting.
From google:
http://www.google.ca/search?q=Francois+Boucher+Poisson&oe=utf-8&rls=org.mozilla:en-US:official&client=firefox-a&um=1&ie=UTF-8&hl=en&tbm=isch&source=og&sa=N&tab=wi&biw=1123&bih=509&sei=FoC8ToKzGYrL0QHSwfDDBA
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Thank you for searching snow! I have seen all of those in my searches but I can't find the exact same image as mine! It's driving me crazy. It is the same outfit, it's pretty evident to me that the artist who did my image copied an earlier one. The signature on mine starts with a "B" and kinda does look like Boucher. But I'm not sure. I will try to take a pic and blow up the image so that I can better read it. It's very hard to see.
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I just read the one from your link! Duh, sorry about that. I guess you already knew the artist. Still looking...
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It's ok snow, I'm not really sure who the artist is. :)
Although the signature does look like it says F or J Boucher, I find it strange that I can't find the image anywhere. He was a well known artist. I would just like to know when it was printed, in the late 1800s or in the 30s/40s? Here's a pic of the signature and the litho company mark.
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Might have something:
sll from other link: Could be St. Louis Litho. Began in the 20's
http://whattheythink.com/news/4275-kba-north-america-announces-press-sale-st-louis-litho/
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Check this out:
http://antiqueprintsblog.blogspot.com/2009/08/sidney-z-lucas.html
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I have been searching for your exact print but come up with nothing. Though this article might explain why there are so many variations of it:
http://www.readingwoman.org/en/cols/2004/6.html
Scroll down to the heading François Boucher, the artist for the photo and then read Media Policy
Sorry I can't be of more help.
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Thank you for all of your searching and research snow! I do think it's the St. Louis Litho Company, although the mark looks slightly different it's close enough. How come I can't find anything about their old stuff online? They are still in business, maybe I can send them an email. It won't hurt. Thank you again!
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Hosman, I think I was wrong about the St.Louis one after looking at the letters on your photo. I'm pretty sure it is a Sidney Lucas print. You can see the mark here:
http://antiqueprintsblog.blogspot.com/2009/08/sidney-z-lucas.html
His daughter runs a gallery here. But they charge a lot of money for inquiries:
http://www.lucillelucasgallery.com/searchresults.php?custom1=Paris%20Etching%20Society%20and%20Sydney%20Z.%20Lucas%20Publications
It's too bad I couldn't find the exact one though.
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Oops, I'm getting way confused by reading too quickly! Sorry about that! I meant the Sidney Lucas mark. :P
So, maybe my little litho isn't older than the frame. They're probably both from the 30s. At least now I know when it was made, who made it and exactly who the picture is of. :) Thank you for your help snowflake.