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Antiques! => Antique Questions Forum => Topic started by: talesofthesevenseas on December 27, 2009, 09:36:39 PM
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I just won this Victorian parasol on Ebay. It came from the estate of the seller's mother-in-law, who loved collecting Victorian antiques on her trips to England. Like me, she couldn't always afford to buy top-of-the-line antiques, but she often came home with some neat finds that had flaw or two. This was one of them.
I am OK with the flaw on this one, I felt that it was such a beautiful piece that it more than made up for it and that even with the flaw, and it will look awesome with my Victorian bustle dress costuming. (see bottom pic) I can always tie a silk bow around the flaw to conceal it in a reenactment.
The seller did not know if it was bone or ivory. I had him double-check for mold lines just to make sure this was not some kind of repro and there are none.
The fabric is fully intact and the parasol is fully functional. A couple of the tips have pulled loose, but they are still there, it just needs a bit of stitching to get the fabric back in place. I suspect the fabric is probably a nicely done replacement since the white does not seem to have yellowed.
I paid $138.50 but was using my Ebay gift cards I got for Christmas so it was pretty-near painless.
Here are my questions:
Is it bone or ivory?
Age?
Value with the flaw?
Value if I were to have it professionally repaired?
Could it be restored/repaired by making a mold of the carving from another place on the handle?
Here are the photos:
Two over-all photos of the parasol,
(http://i181.photobucket.com/albums/x124/talesofthesevenseas/Parasol1.jpg)
(http://i181.photobucket.com/albums/x124/talesofthesevenseas/Parasol2.jpg)
Close-up of the parasol tip:
(http://i181.photobucket.com/albums/x124/talesofthesevenseas/Parasol3.jpg)
Underside and lining:
(http://i181.photobucket.com/albums/x124/talesofthesevenseas/Parasol9.jpg)
The handle, the flaw is visible in the second photo, about 2" from where the parasol shaft smooths out:
(http://i181.photobucket.com/albums/x124/talesofthesevenseas/Parasol4.jpg)
(http://i181.photobucket.com/albums/x124/talesofthesevenseas/Parasol5.jpg)
Close-ups of the handle:
(http://i181.photobucket.com/albums/x124/talesofthesevenseas/Parasol7.jpg)
(http://i181.photobucket.com/albums/x124/talesofthesevenseas/Parasol8.jpg)
Close-up on the flaw. This one and the one above are probably the best shots for determining if this is bone or ivory. Would those lines on the right in the photo below and yellow discoloration in the photo above be indicative of ivory? It would have to be a pretty darn big tusk that it came from, the seller says this is a single piece.
(http://i181.photobucket.com/albums/x124/talesofthesevenseas/Parasol6.jpg)
This is me in the Victorian costuming that I bought the parasol for. Since taking this photo I replaced the bustle pad with a bustle cage underneath, so mentally add about 6" to my backside, LOL:
(http://i181.photobucket.com/albums/x124/talesofthesevenseas/BustleDress3.jpg)
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Cool item , talesof7c's .
Quite the fancy babe in the bustle , too .
Impossible to tell what your item is made from , for me , from only a photo (unless you've got one from an electron microscope) .
It either is , or is intended to represent one (tooth) from a Narwhal tusk .
Narwhal tusk was used to make the royal scepter (in England , 16th century , I thnk) and was a major uber-bling item , way back when .
If you know one , perhaps taking it to someone in your locale who knows their ivory will help answer the question(s) about repair .
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Thanks RegularJoe, I don't know anyone yet, but I'm in the San Francisco Bay Area and I should be able to find someone to take a look at it locally. I see what you are saying the spiral design does look like it at least imitates narwhal. That's cool! I tried searching for photos of carved narwhal tusk and didn't find much.
I'm guessing that since it is a straight piece, if it is carved from curved elephant ivory, I'll see it in the grain, like you would when curves are carved out of wood? Does the grain of narwhal tusk spiral? I have no experience with ivory.
An interesting footnote to this, as of January 1, Ebay is banning the sale of even legal antique ivory. The exceptions are pianos with ivory keys and wood furniture with ivory inlays created before 1900:
http://announcements.ebay.com/?s=ivory (http://announcements.ebay.com/?s=ivory)
http://www.blogher.com/ebay-bans-ivory-sales-huzzah (http://www.blogher.com/ebay-bans-ivory-sales-huzzah)
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In the flaw were seeing, machine made threads. thru ivory not very likely. so we are talking 1880 1885. for machine made & I think it's much later. I think 1910 or so.
But still not a bad price too pay.
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Honestly, with and all thread shaft ? which I suspect it is. we are much later then 1910. handle is more likely to be a resin. personally I think the repair would be more then the value.
It serves it's purpose. so it's a small price to pay.
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Well, it sounds like I had better let someone take a look at it when it gets here if it did turn out to ne resin it would be useless to me since things like plastc and zippers etc are frowned upon when you're doing reenactment stuff and costuming is kept as historically accurate as possible. I guess I will see mold lines if it is resin and would not see grain or pitting. I would think.I could run it by an antique store or pawn shop and at least eliminate the possibility of it being resin.
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Narwhal tusks are , for the most part , usually found with a counter-clockwise twist , and have a hollow core that extends almost the full length of the tusk .
I've only seen one that was a clockwise twist .
I'd check for a roundish 'plug' at the base of your umbrella handle , one that would be on the axis of the shaft of the unit .
If there's no plug (you might have to get out your loupe) , pretty fair possibility exists that narwhal is not what the mat'l is made from .
I've also used an old trick , sorta like candling eggs , to check if a carved item is hollow (you need a very powerful light source to do so) .
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If it's cold to the touch, even in a warm room. it's a good chance it's ivory.
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Thanks both of you that is very helpful. I'm a total rookie at this so it will be a good learning experience. It would be interesting to know how to identify "vegetable ivory" too.
Repro lace parasols sell for about twenty bucks so it wouldn't be good if it were a resin repro! The original collector had a collection of antique fans so I hope she could spot ivory or bone vs resin
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Your question about 'vegetable ivory' is a good one ... generally 'detected' by it's hardness (in 'raw' form) , chemically sometimes in it's 'bonded' form .
Here's a site with some good info about it : http://waynesword.palomar.edu/pljan99.htm (sorry about the earlier link , was my mistake) .
Most , but not all of the ivory/bone handled/shafted parasols I've seen (1800's) tend to have baleen components in the parasol portion . Many of these were hinged 2 part shafts , with a ferrule that slid to connect/secure them .
I have seen old parasol 'cores' that have been repaired/restored with some modern parts too .
I'm not real sure what you've got there , though , talesof7c's .
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RJ2 can you repost that link? I don't seem to be able to access it. Thanks! Yeah I'll be real interested to see what I've got when it gets here!
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Well, I'm a little better educated at the end of my lunch hour than I was at the beginning. I went in to one of my fav antique stores, which I remembered had a lot of ivory items and talked to the owner. I offered to pay him a few bucks to help me determine what the parasol is when it arrives, but he refused it and said just to bring it in, he loves ivory/bone antiques and would just love to see it and he'll help me out.
We talked for about 20 minutes about what to look for in ivory vs. bone, and he brought out some ivory that I held to get a feel for it. He showed me how to examine it for little cracks, streaks etc. and we looked at it under a magnifying glass. He also talked to me about how difficult it is to value ivory, because some people don't like it at all because of the elephant issues and others love it.
I brought up the photos on my BlackBerry, and looking at the level of carving he said he didn't think this would turn out to be bone, that it was too detailed for someone to have spent that much time carving on bone.
He was incredibly helpful, so I'm giving high marks to his store:
Antique Memories & Collectibles
2314 Stevens Creek Blvd San Jose CA 95128
408-977-1758
I'll write some glowing reviews online tonight and should go back and pick something from his store too since I haven't done that yet.
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The thing that throws caution to me is the same that D&b pointed out...the threaded component showing in the middle of the flaw.
Great you have someone to look at it. Early 1900's had lots of celluloid items that were to mimic the older imaterials used - truly hope it doesn't turn out to be that!!!!!!
Friends mother-in-law (famous head makeup artist in Hollywood) notes costume makers have lots of knowledge on this due to fact they have to make according to time line....
suggest here's a site to browse at http://www.shootingstarhistory.com/parasol/ (http://www.shootingstarhistory.com/parasol/)
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Wow very cool I had not seen that part of their site. This one measures 31" in length the same in diameter. Ageed, that would be a drag if it did turn out to be celluloid! It does seem odd to have it theaded down the center, although I wonder if the spring latch mechanism would have made this at least partially necessary since it pops out of the shaft. I truly haven't got a clue. This should be interesting.
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I found a good Web site showing clear examples of bone, ivory and celluloid side by side. I see why this can be so difficult!
http://www.antiquegamblingchips.com/distinguish_iv_bon_cel.htm (http://www.antiquegamblingchips.com/distinguish_iv_bon_cel.htm)
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Someone may have posted this already but here is a simple test gun owners have been using for years to determine if pistol grips are real ivory. Hold a straight pin in a pair of pliers, heat the end of the pin over your kitchen range to red hot, touch the pin to a place on the article you're testing in a place that won't show later, bring the article close to your nose. If it's real ivory it will smell like burnt hair.
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Forgot to mention that animal bone (I suppose human also) will give the same burnt hair odor, but unlike elephant ivory cannot be milled or ground as deeply without revealing the porous base. Looking at your umbrella handle carving I would think it is either ivory or synthetic.
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I had read about that smell test but with no experience to draw upon I don't know if I can make that call. There is also a test where you put a drop of acetone in an inconspicuous place and if it is celluloid it will dissolve. I think I will start by using my jewelers loupe to try to see if there is the criss cross grain shown on the gaming chip example above and I will take it to the antique store ivory guy for his input and then I will go from there.
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One more duestion. Wouldn't we see some kind of mold line or dimple with celluloid? Thanks for all the help with this.
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Tales, not necessarily....they made some pretty phenomenal pieces that didn't show any mold lines. They also had some type if "heating device" that could go over flaws and "meld/melt" it to smooth the flaws!
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OK good to know. I'm thinking that if it is that difficult to tell if it is ivory or celluloid, I'll still be able to use it with my costuming regardless since it will still be authentic to the time period, even if it is celluloid. So determining the material will be more about whether or not I paid to much, LOL.
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I'm with KC on the 'lack of mold flash' thing .
Sometimes higher quality items would go through wet polishing as well , using a rubber wheel &/or ball with cerium oxide (rare earth compound , still used today for polishing many things) suspended in water .
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Good news on the parasol. It came in this morning and I took it to the antique dealer who carries a lot of ivory in his shop. He loved it and said it was "beautiful" and "absolutely and definitely ivory." So I'm very pleased with that. He also said that the fabric appears original. I was surprised when I got it that it did appear old, but quite stable and in pretty darn amazing shape.
I have learned a lot from this one. D&B- it is cool to the touch, but not cold like stone and not warm like plastic. It definitely has its own kind of feel to it. I'm "getting it." LOL Thanks for teaching me that!
A few things that didn't show in the photos. I can clearly see the grain, and the criss-crossing is easy to see in places even without magnification. Also the carving is VERY deep in places, with cupped almost tubular leaves at differing angles and layers of leaves, that I don't think could be pulled out of a mold.
The antique dealer also said that he felt the break could be repaired by making an impression from elsewhere on the carving and making a plastic piece that would fill it in. I may do that at a later date. For now a nice bow over the spot will do the trick until I find someone who could do that and determine what the cost would be. I wonder how difficult it might be to do a latex mold... they do sell that stuff at Tap Plastics. I suspect though that this is something that ought to be handled by a pro, not by me.
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Glad you got it and are happy with it!
Did he say anything about the threaded piece inside? If he thinks it's original or replacement?
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No he didn't comment on it.
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Good for you , talesof !
I'm still curious about my earlier question about it possibly having a 'plug' in the end of the handle , though .
You're becoming an ivoritrix now !
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An ivoritrix?!!! LOL
I just looked at the end of the handle and this is interesting. There is a round carved feature right at the end of the handle that may be some type of plug. It is kind of inconsistent from the rest of the carving and doesn't connect to the rest of the carving. It's a round feature all buy itself, but it is carved and raised. I was expecting to see a flat plug that was flush, if anything at all. I need to look at it under magnification, my eyes aren't what they used to be and I can't tell if it is actually just as carved piece or something separate. If it is a plug, they were careful to disguise it. I will take some detail photos tonight and post them.
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OK I've got some photos and some answers...
This is a look at the parasol handle without a flash. It is a little more true to the color. The actual color is something between the white you see with the flash, and the gold you see without it.
(http://i181.photobucket.com/albums/x124/talesofthesevenseas/Parasol20.jpg)
Here's a shot with the flash showing the criss-crossing grain on the ivory. This was about the clearest shot I could get of it.
(http://i181.photobucket.com/albums/x124/talesofthesevenseas/Parasol21.jpg)
This is the end of the parasol handle. Its just part of the carving. I looked with my jewler's loupe and it is definitely not a plug, so it's not narwhal tusk.
(http://i181.photobucket.com/albums/x124/talesofthesevenseas/Parasol22.jpg)
The rod looks to be a later repair and not part of the original parasol. The break goes all the way through and the rod is holding the two parts together. You can see the glue that oozed out in this photo. Looks like a pretty amateurish repair, but it does hold it together. For now, a bow will hide it easily, and I'll look into having it redone properly.
No doubt the indomitable Mrs. Weatherby clubbed a liverpool pickpocket on the head with it as he was trying to make off with her pocketbook, whilst giving a shrill cry of "Now you've gone and done it you bloody hooligan, you've ruined my best parasol!!!"
(http://i181.photobucket.com/albums/x124/talesofthesevenseas/Parasol23.jpg)
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Very cool! and I love your costume! I would love to get into reinactments-however I know theres a lot I would need to learn about before doing so ;D
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Not really, its pretty easy unless you are getting involved with an organization that has very strict historical accuracy guidelines like the Civil War reenactors. And even then if you ask for help you'll likely get a lot. But its very easy to get going with some of the Victorian and wild west events especially now that there is a whole steampunk genre that is Victorian science fiction and is open to some extremely wide interpretations in costuming. With those events its all about brass goggles and time travel so you can really have fun with it. Thanks for the compliment on my costume! ;D
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So based on the strong assumption that our threaded rod is a later repair and not an original part of the parasol, and confirmation that the material is ivory (presumably elephant ivory?), what would you guys estimate the age is on this? Maybe 1880 to 1890-ish judging by the longer 31" length of the parasol?
...And again, many thanks for all the input on this one. I really did learn an awful lot on this go-round!
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I think you should do the hot pin test to confirm that it's ivory. It would smell more like burning tooth, like when the dentist drills your teeth because its enamel like teeth. Not sure what bone would smell like. If it's something other than ivory, like plastic or something synthetic, it would melt. Ivory won't.
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That All thread looks much later then 1890. which is likely since a repair was done. As whole likely to be 1890.
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Thanks D&B! ;D
Syl, I'm afraid I don't have enough experience to give it a smell test. I just don't have anything to compare it to, unless I had examples of known celluloid and known ivory for comparison. I'm confident with the antique dealers assessment of it, and I could do the acetone test, since I understand that would not hurt the ivory and would only affect it if it were celluloid. So that might be a better option for me.
Last night I firmly packed and wound the repaired area with cotton. That not only helped to protect where the two parts of the break come together, but it also firmed it up overall, as there was a slight amount of movement around the threads. Then I sewed a tube out of the same taffeta as the bustle, made it nice and snug over the cotton, and then gathered both ends. Then I sewed on a bow of the same material. It came out very nice, helped to stabilize the whole thing, protects it from further damage and hides the problem completely. I restitched the two places where the fabric had come off the frame. There are no tips like on a modern umbrella, but it has holes that you hand-stitch the fabric to. I aligned it with the old stiching which had a nice heavy seam to hang onto. It worked great so that's all fixed too. I might work on a matching removable taffeta cover for the top, which will protect the old fabric from sun damage and match it to my costume. I'll post a photo of the final result.
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I do not believe the hot pin will penetrate ivory but it will melt celluloid. A drilled hole will give off the burned smell. To smell this smell, drill a piece of antler with a Dremel. It is very distinctive and you will never forget it. There are websites that give a thorough explanation of the difference between ivory, celluloid, and bone (there is a good one on rubylane). With a loupe you should be able to tell the difference. Ivory has wavy lines and cross hatching, celluloid has straight lines, and bone has flecks. Ivory will also be cooler to the touch than the other two. With a loupe, you should be able to see actual cuts (starts and stops) done with a graver or whatever was used to carve this with. The close-up you had of the end shows the wavy lines and cross hatching. A definite trait of ivory.
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OK if the pin test doesn't actually burn the ivory that would be ok to try
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I wouldn't waste the effort on 'testing' your item , talesof7cs - you've already had it ID'd by a specialist .
As a suggestion for your consideration , you might try a little Fimo-therapy with this one (FIMO 'clay') .
You can mould it to the existing repair , bake it in the oven & secure it in the/with the method you've already done ... it would be removable & could offer a bit stiffer 'interim' repair - until such time as you decide about a permanent repair .
I'd sure hate to see it broken further , if it were mine .
You can even mix the fimo colors to match the ivory , as well as working with/carving the fimo after it's heat-cured .
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That sounds like a good idea, I have never heard of Fimo. Would I get that at a craft, plastics or art supply store?
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@ Craft &/or art supply stores , talesof .
You usually can buy single-color small packages (about 2 oz.) pretty cheap .
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Good recommendation regularjoe! Forgot about this! Would be great for her to mold, bake and then apply!
Here's some instructions that may help TalesOf
[url]http://www.artsncrafts-ideas.com/fimo-modelling-clay.php/url]
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Cool! This looks like it would be fun too. I'll definitely check this out. We have a large Michaels craft store nearby my work that probably carries this. I wonder if I could take an impression from the parasol and bake it, then use the baked impression as a mold for the new piece... hmmm... you've got my gears a-turnin'!
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I have been working on the cover for the parasol this weekend and I'm pleased with how it came out. I used left-over taffeta from the bustle dress, made a circular cover that lays over it with a ruffled edge and a drawstring at the top. The ruffle is lightly elasticized, so that it very gently stays over the top of the parasol, without actually being invasive in any way. No clips or stitching or ties that might damage the original fabric.
Here it is:
Being the girly-girl that she is, Peep insisted on being in the photo with the parasol:
(http://i181.photobucket.com/albums/x124/talesofthesevenseas/Parasol26.jpg)
(http://i181.photobucket.com/albums/x124/talesofthesevenseas/Parasol24.jpg)
Up-close on the bow over the repair:
(http://i181.photobucket.com/albums/x124/talesofthesevenseas/Parasol25.jpg)
(http://i181.photobucket.com/albums/x124/talesofthesevenseas/Parasol28.jpg)
Up-close on the drawstring top:
(http://i181.photobucket.com/albums/x124/talesofthesevenseas/Parasol27.jpg)
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What a wonderful Parasol, Not sure if I had mentioned that or not, and have really liked this thread. My Girlfriend really like it too, and would love to a pic with you dressed up with it. I would have to comment that for a pirate Lady, it is a bit dainty ;D . Pirate by day and Victorian Noble by night. Tales you really rock :D.
P.S. Looks like Peep is proud of it too.
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Now that is just beautiful! I have been watching this thread and I have no idea why I haven't commented yet. When I think of victorian times, these are exactly what I imagine. The bow is just perfect, sly way to cover up!
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Thanks guys, I do intend to try the Fimo clay, but the bow will suffice for the time being. Ironlord, I will get a photo of the whole ensemble, but I need to give it another week or two before I want to get into the corset again. I just had surgery actually, for breast cancer. Fortunately I'm going to be just fine, they got it all and it has not spread to my lymph nodes. I do have to have radiation and chemotherapy to keep it from returning, which is really gonna suck. But it's a pretty big lumpectomy scar, about 3" and I need to give it another week or two before I subject it to those steel bars!
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Yikes , talesofthesevenseas .
Glad to hear you're on the mend .
Nice job on the cover/sewing thingie !
Survivor here too (lymph stuff) .
10+ years & no returns .
Speaking of steel bars ... did you hear there's a new dominatrix auction site ?
They call it Obay .
bad man .
Sorry if that one hurt your ribs .
:D
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I will head right over and check out that site!! LOL! Seriously though I'm glad to hear you're kickin' it. Hmmm... I guess we must have chewed on too much lead paint when we were kids!
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Wish you a speedy and permanent recovery TOT7S.
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Sorry to hear about the Cancer. My sister has it too. I'am suffering from a good dose of agent Orange. ( Vietnam) it's trying very hard too get the better of me.
Were rooting for you' you can do it.
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I will be rooting for you too D&B. *big hug*
Thanks all of you for the support. Now you guys know why I was suddenly in the market for a rocking chair, LOL. It's actually turned out to be wonderful thing to have on those difficult days. Nothing like a good ol' rocker and the cat in your lap sometimes! ;)
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Tales beautiful job on the parasol and from what I have seen on this site is there is nothing you can not do!! my husbands mother went through the same as you and has been a survivor with no return for over 20 years. I will place you in my prayers!!
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Thanks guys! I will post a photo of the whole costume together with the parasol ASAP. I've been wanting to take one since I got the full bustle cage. And again no worries, all indications are that I'll be just fine and will be posting photographs of antique plaster monkey table lamps for years to come! Just gotta do the chemo/radiation thing to make sure.
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Tales just now reading the thread and see that you are being challenged with your health. Our prayers are with you. We have been making meals and taking them to a friend of our sons for the 5 days after her treatments. We freeze them so she can defrost them and heat them up for her family when she feels she can't do the whole shebang. She likes it this way because she still feels like she is cooking the whole meal for her family. Glad to hear you have such a positive attitude and the outlook is very good! Please keep your "antique-shop family" informed! We really care!
By-the-way....you did a phenomenal job on the parasol! Very impressive!
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Thanks KC! That is really cool that you did that for your neighbor. I have a neighbor who brought a couple of meals over after my surgery, and it really was a wonderful help that really does make a difficult situation much easier. My husband has volunteered for chauffer duty as needed, since I will need to keep working throughout having chemo and radiation. I'm really fortunate to have people helping me through this, both at home and on-line! :) I do have a blog set up where I'm posting my progress if anyone would like to follow along:
http://clairebrittonwarren.blogspot.com (http://clairebrittonwarren.blogspot.com)
On the parasol, I went looking for one of those little white rubber door stop tips, thinking that it would be good to put on the tip of the parasol to protect it so that it could be rested point downward. But it turns out that they now make these out of hard plastic. So I'm trying to find one online now.
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What are the dimensions of the stop that you need? That way if any of us find it we can help you out.
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Glad to hear you have such a positive attitude and the outlook is very good! Please keep your "antique-shop family" informed! We really care!
Hell yeah!
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LOL thanks m'dears!
That round ball on the tip of the parasol has a 5/8" diameter. I think I found something that will work, although it does not say if 5/8 is the inside or outside diameter:
http://www.jewin.com/product_list.asp?SmallClassID=14&SmallClassName=Tips&act=small (http://www.jewin.com/product_list.asp?SmallClassID=14&SmallClassName=Tips&act=small)
(http://www.jewin.com/upload/20071127203421.jpg)
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(http://i181.photobucket.com/albums/x124/talesofthesevenseas/Parasol6.jpg)
The antique dealer also said that he felt the break could be repaired by making an impression from elsewhere on the carving and making a plastic piece that would fill it in.
That not only helped to protect where the two parts of the break come together,……. as there was a slight amount of movement around the threads.
I finally got around to reading this thread and figured I should add my 2 cents on the above, better late than never, for what it might be worth.
I agree, the “allthread” is a recent repair, recent meaning any time in the last 30 – 40 years. It needs to be re-repaired because of that “wiggle” because it will only continue to get worse and which is actually not a big deal to fix it.
Iffen it was me I would do the following: 1. Purchase some Epoxy at WalMart, etc. The type that comes in two (2) little “squeeze” tubes and you mix just enough of each together to make a repair. But don’t mix more than you need at any given time. 3. Get a 5” or 6” long flat blade screwdriver for mixing, etc. 4. Use a black “felt tip” magic marker to mark the “allthread” at the center line of the break in the handle. (see picture above) 5. Grasp the two parts of the handle and unscrew the smaller part. They will come apart and the “allthread” will still be in one of them but it doesn’t matter which one. 6. Get 2 hex nuts and put them on the end of the “allthread” and tighten them “tight together” using 2 wrenches. 7. Then put one wrench on the nut closest to the other part of the handle and unscrew the “allthread” from the other part …… but remember which part that was.
Now you are ready to make the re-repair. And remember it goes back together in reverse order from the way it came apart.
8. Now, squeeze out a 3/4“ round dab from each tube of epoxy, side by side, on a piece of cardboard and using the “flat blade” screwdriver, mix the two together. 9. Pick up the part of the handle that you last removed the “allthread” from and using the screwdriver, put about ½ of the mix inside of the hole in the handle and spread the rest of the mix up the threads of the “allthread” to within ½” of that black “center” mark. 10. Hold the handle so the hole is pointing upward and screw the “all thread” back into it. Put the wrench on the top nut and screw it down until the black “center” mark is back where it originally was. 11. Give it 3 or 4 hours to “cure”.
12. Take the two wrenches and remove those 2 hex nuts from the “allthread”. 13. Repeat the procedure: mix up a dab of epoxy, part in hole in handle, part on threads, screw handle down on “allthread” to where it originally was, let it cure
Or, take it to someone that has worked with that epoxy.
And that was so long I'll hafta say it was "my 50 cents worth". ;D ;D
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What cogar says sounds pretty good for stabilizing the break. The only thing I will add is if there was any type of glue used on the "allthread" when it was originally repaired, that glue bond needs to be broken before you try to unscrew the handle section. I would use a soldering gun and put the tip on the exposed metal rod to heat up the metal ONLY. After the rod is heated, then I would unscrew the handle from the "allthread". Following cogar's advice on removing the "allthread", you may need to do this procedure twice. Expoxy will definitely stabilize it internally before you try any external casting match repair. I am not sure you would need to reuse the "allthread", a solid plastic or nylon rod (epoxy coated when inserted) with the same diameter as the "allthread" would also work. I would be nervous to use a metal threaded object in ivory but if it unscrews easily, it should also screw back in easily. Using the parasol as is without stabilizing the break may cause further damage.
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One problem is that the threads of the rod seem to have a very tight grip on the ivory and I suspect that it has been glued to the threads or that some of the glue has drizzled in. I don't know that it will actually come apart and I'm hesitant to put much force on it since it looks like there is glue going into a short split just above the break. I think it is probably beyond the scope of my abilities. My guess is that it would need some type of solvent that would not damage the ivory to loosen the hold on the threads before it could be separated.
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I too would be hesitant to put much if any force on the ivory. If the heat (as I described previous) does not easily break the old glue bond, I would leave it alone. I would not use a solvent. If it would happen to be a wood glue used (doubtful) such as Elmer's or Titebond, vinegar will soften that. It does take time though.
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I agree with what Waywardangler added to my “fix-it” directions. And actually, if I were fixing it I would use a hardwood dowel pin instead of the “allthread” because a dowel pin will “flex” a wee bit if pressure was put on the joint when one was using the parasol, aka: a gust of wind. But, replacing the “allthread” with a dowel pin requires a bit more expertise to insure that the handle is straight when the epoxy hardens. And you only get “one shot” at it and if it’s wrong, you got to drill it out and do it again.
If the “allthread” wiggles, it should un-screw. And I can’t imagine it being glued in there. If the holes were drilled slightly “undersized” then the “allthread” would cut its own threads into the ivory when screwed into the holes. Whoever repaired it first, knew what they were doing because ……. NO WAY could an amateur drill those “matching holes” in the two (2) handle pieces. I’m fairly sure that it was done by a machinist using a lathe or a boring machine.
So, the “wiggly” end of the handle should un-screw and if the “allthread” is stubborn at coming out of the other piece then one can heat up the end with the nuts on it with a propane torch or whatever and then use the wrench to twist it out. Just wrap the handle with several layers of cloth and secure it “snuggly” in a vice before doing so.
Tales, take it to a Machine Shop and they will re-fix for you. Have them put a nylon (or whatever) dowel pin back in it and it will then be stronger than the original. ;D
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I hadn't thought of talking to a machine shop. Let me think on it if I already know any machinists. I used to know plenty, I might know on who might still be around. That might be a good place to start.
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I wouldn't use any of the described methods for permanent repair just yet , if it were mine .
I've had a couple of ivory items with metal repairs that i had restored , by pros (with a little help from me) .
I know a dentist who gave me some x-rays at a very reasonable rate , to actually determine the extent of the first repair(s) .
This same dentist sold me UV activated glue (which is used on human dental work - very tough stuff) for the ivory carver (who did the actual restoration) to use ... this carver used only ivory mat'l for the repair , and the dental adhesive .
He now uses this type of glue , almost exclusively , for repairs .
I'd check around the Bay area for some Inuit craftsman/woman who carves ivory (also perhaps in the Tibetan community) , to give input or to give estimates on repair .
Maybe the Antique dealer who I.D.'d it for you may also have a craftsman 'in his pocket' .
You've got a nicely carved piece of Ivory that deserves a proper repair , should your budget allow it .
I just don't think it's a good idea to go to a carpenter for a welding job , if you get my drift .
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I did ask the ivory antique store guy and he said he didn't know of anyone. I bet I could find someone up around San Francisco. An x-ray is a good idea, I bet my dentist would be willing to do that if I asked. I think it would help anyone who might attempt a repair to know what was going on inside. I think this is probably something I won't do immediately, but I agree it does look to be worthy of investing some money to have it done right. I could do it in stages.
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Now you're cookin' with gas , talesofthe7cs' !
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LOL! ;D
I really want to thank all you guys for spending so much time on this one. I really learned a lot from you guys. With all my stuff going on I probably won't be doing the repair soon, but when I do, I'll post it.
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Like the xray idea. Too bad you aren't in my neck of the woods....I have a friend that would have done it!