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Antiques! => Antique Questions Forum => Topic started by: dianecaudle on March 15, 2010, 07:57:16 PM
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Hi everyone,
I've done searches all over the internet and also on Ebay, I haven't found anything like this. I believe it's a rectangular antique canteen. The item is made of heavy metal and the outside material is leather.
There are several marks on the side, one of them looks like the peace symbol, but of course, it isn't. The other is an upside down triangle with something in it. There is also a 1920 on it.
All of the old canteens I've seen on the internet are usually round or flatter than the one in the pic.
Thanks,
Diane
http://www.dianecaudle.com
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I remember my family had a real old canteen with a chain and connector to hold on to it just like this! However, ours wasn't square.
Could yours possibly be a flask? They were made in metal. Could possibly be a saddle flask or canteen!
Can you please post a pic of the markings you describe? Can you also post the dimensions?
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What is the size of it, Looks kind of too big to be a flask for water, maybe a early gas can, just poking at a guess. 1920's would be the age of the beginning of the Auto craze. Just think it looks a bit heavy duty for just water or a quick snip ;D
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I'm guessin' a kerosene item .
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I'm guessin' a kerosene item .
It could be, based from its shape. It seems like a rare item, most canteens I have seen in shops have round shapes.
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How about a picture of and describe the part the end of the chain is connected to, it looks like a hand pump.
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Can't say as I have ever seen a kerosene carrier made so ornately.
The connector that ours had on it (just like this) wasn't a pump so would be curious to know if this one is. It was actually a family item that had been handed down form great grandparents - from their first automobile days. Enough water was carried to have water for the radiator!
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It looks to heavy for something you would carry around. Interesting to find out more info .
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From top to bottom the body is about six inches, including the screw-off top in the middle it's close to seven inches. The width is 5 1/4" and the depth is almost four inches.
There was one thing I noticed about it, there is what looks to be a belt loop on one side and a belt loop on the other side but the buckle would prevent anything from going around it completely.
I looked up kerosene cans on the internet and all of the ones I saw had funnels and were larger. This one appears to me to be too small for a kerosene carrier plus the fact that it is surrounded by leather is another reason why I would think that nobody would want to put kerosene in it--i'd think that if anything spilled out of it the leather would soak up and hold any gas. I took a whiff of it and there was no residue odor in the interior.
What appears to you to be a pump or spring is where the chain is attached to the item. The chain is attached to the screw-on cap on the top middle of the can and the chain breaks into two and attaches to the top and bottom of the little pole on the top corner of the can. It can only unscrew from the top and does nothing else.
The letters on the side look like O. S. M. Co and my husband and his father were Marines so I thought that maybe it might be some kind of Marine canteen but the initials would have started out with U. S. Surprisingly enough, I was able to get a very clear picture of the engraving in the leather on the side.
I had tried to post two pictures yesterday but only one of them was posted. i'll try to send two more this time. Thanks for your help.
Diane
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Change those letters on the side to look like they read "O. C. M. Co and not O. S. I think the last one looks like it might be a o with a line underneath it but it's hard to tell.
Diane
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FYI a couple of square canteens!
http://wcudigitalcollection.cdmhost.com/cdm4/item_viewer.php?CISOROOT=/p4008coll1&CISOPTR=52&CISOBOX=1&REC=6 (http://wcudigitalcollection.cdmhost.com/cdm4/item_viewer.php?CISOROOT=/p4008coll1&CISOPTR=52&CISOBOX=1&REC=6)
and another
http://wcudigitalcollection.cdmhost.com/cdm4/item_viewer.php?CISOROOT=/p4008coll1&CISOPTR=53&CISOBOX=1&REC=7 (http://wcudigitalcollection.cdmhost.com/cdm4/item_viewer.php?CISOROOT=/p4008coll1&CISOPTR=53&CISOBOX=1&REC=7)
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Couple? There is no seam in the top of it. It is one piece.
Diane
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So am I to assume that the rod that holds the chain has no movement. i.e. Like a movement up and down to keep pressure in the Tank per say. Just had a vision of it being a early flame thrower tank. :o. Proabably not. Judging at the size sounds like it would hold a gallon of Liquid, that seems like a lot for something like water, That would weigh alot to carry around for any length of time.
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I just tried the rod again, it doesn't move, I couldn't get the chain at the bottom to move either, if I had tried to unscrew it with more force I might have gotten the bottom chain to unscrew but so far only the top chain unscrews off and the rod is immobile.
Diane
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Interesting, canteens produced after 1918 were required to have the manufacturers identification and date on it!
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I must say that I like the looks of your item , dianecaudle .
I've never seen one just like it .
It seems unusually secure , in it's case/holster , to simply hold water .
Perhaps (here I go guessin' again) it may have held carbide , for lamps ?
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What does the metal container look like out of the leather case? How big is the center hole? Can you see the interior with a flashlight and tell if the corner rod goes all the way to the bottom or what? Does it look like there is wear on the narrow waisted part of the corner rod like something clipped on there or was strapped there? Would it have held gunpowder or lead shot? I do not think it held a liquid but rather something else that could be scooped out or poured out. That is a pretty heavy duty chain for a canteen.
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One more question, is the chain brass? (Ours was so I am being nosy)
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What appears to you to be a pump or spring is where the chain is attached to the item. The chain is attached to the screw-on cap on the top middle of the can and the chain breaks into two and attaches to the top and bottom of the little pole on the top corner of the can. It can only unscrew from the top and does nothing else
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Diane, the knurled knobs on the "little pole" tells me that they also twist or turn or something ....... and their chain attachment tells me that they can be removed and will dangle on their chain.
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Ok, I can answer a few of the questions now, and then examine the inside of the canteen or whatever it is a bit later...my son-in-law took the leather cover off last night and he said that it had 1943 on the container MK II and No. 3 were also on it. He advises not to take off the leather case any more since the strap looked rather fragile and stiff and might end up breaking off.
Remember, I"m an artist, not a specialist in antiques and metals like most of you, but he said that the larger screw-off lid on top is brass. The chain seems to me to be a lighter material then brass but I could be wrong. Also, I was examining it last night and the inside of the post does have a narrow hole in it. I will get a flashlight and see what I can find inside the container in a bit,
Thanks,
Diane
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With both caps off, neither would be lost as the third clip would hold the chain to the caps. With the small hole, this would allow air in or out and allow liquid to pour freely out the large center hole without an air lock impeding the liquid flow. I am guessing this may be a spare water or gas reservoir for a WWII motorcycle (possibly British) or other small engine powered vehicle? The leather covering would protect from being beaten around too much and the two strap loops may have been where it was strapped on. Just a wild guess.
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My dad confirmed it was British (Mark 2) and that my uncle (Ace pilot with Hell Hawks) brought it back from the war and gave it to our grandparents.
Now looking at British war memorabilia......he re are possibilities.....B ritish oil can to be used with machine guns
http://www.ima-usa.com/product_info.php/cPath/1_214_110/products_id/1866?osCsid=c487243eeb2b305cfd39a9b147ce8966 (http://www.ima-usa.com/product_info.php/cPath/1_214_110/products_id/1866?osCsid=c487243eeb2b305cfd39a9b147ce8966)
(http://www.ima-usa.com/popup_image.php/pID/1866/image/2)
Too bad my uncle just passed away....i could ask him if we were drinking out out of a oil can all of these years! HA!
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Good one KC! Yes, it does greatly resemble that oil can.
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Looks like a match to me too. Way to go KC's Dad ;)
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Thanks to KC, I think this is the exact oil can but only in olive drab. See this site at the bottom. It seems there is a question of it being for the Vickers machine gun but that is their guess. I am wondering if after the war, these were re-purposed for other use and dressed up in leather?
http://www.diggerhistory.info/pages-weapons/vickers.htm
This site http://www.hayesotoupalik.com/U.S.%20Machine%20Gun%20Parts.htm lists the same exact can (by looks) as "WW1 M1917 Colt .30 Browning Water Cooled Machine gun Oil Can. Excellent Condition, Rare. $69.00."
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Way to go waywardangler!!!!!!!
I know the one we had was repurposed if it was originally for oil. LOL At my old age my joints still don't squeak!
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Way to go guys! Excellent sleuthing....I wonder what the belt loops on the side were for....but anyway, thanks for all your help, it was sort of like playing detective....I think it's interesting that the description of it states it's rare and then values it at $69 :P
Thanks again,
Diane
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He advises not to take off the leather case any more since the strap looked rather fragile and stiff and might end up breaking off.
Diane, you can put "saddle soap" on the leather to rejuvenate it.
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diane, my dad pointed out with the MK (Mark) designation coupled with the date it was definitely military.
So.....if you are in war.....on the front lines.....everythin g is portable and has to have it's place on the soldier or the vehicle. Split second observations let you know if you are fixin' to leave something behind. (In southern language "fixin to" translates to "getting ready to" in English.) Not like us who haphazardly pack the car or ourselves before we head out the door.
Most machine guns and machine gun supplies were belted for the most efficient way to carry them and run at the same time!