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Antiques! => Antique Questions Forum => Topic started by: talesofthesevenseas on April 21, 2010, 01:29:05 AM
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A couple of weeks ago, KC & IronLord asked about my Grandmother's spoon collection, which was in the background of a photograph on another topic. It's taken me a little bit to get this together. There are several parts to this, so I'll upload more photos of other pieces and photos of the people who owned them.
Here's my grandmother's spoon rack.
(http://i181.photobucket.com/albums/x124/talesofthesevenseas/SpoonRack-All.jpg)
Here's what is in each of the rows, from left to right, by their markings:
ROW ONE:
"Bolles" - Bolles family spoon which belonged to my great-grandfather Joseph Bolles Ely Sr. Bolles is an earlier surname.
"Beloit 1908" (JBE on back) - My great-grandfather Joseph Bolles Ely Sr.'s college spoon
"CR" - My great-grandmother, Charlotte Richardson who married Joseph Bolles Ely Sr.
"August" (1915 on back) - My great-grandmother Ellen Louise Adams birthday month spoon, sent to her from the 1915 CA Expo.
"George" - My great-grandfather George Tisdale's spoon
"AEP" - My great-great-grandmother Ann Eliza Perkins spoon
Top row front sides:
(http://i181.photobucket.com/albums/x124/talesofthesevenseas/SpoonRackTopRowFronts.jpg)
Top row back sides:
(http://i181.photobucket.com/albums/x124/talesofthesevenseas/SpoonRackTopRowBacks.jpg)
MIDDLE ROW:
(Insignia) My great-grandfather Joseph Bolles Ely Sr.'s Beloit fraternity spoon
"CLE" My mother, Charlotte Louise Ely
(The Cinderella Spoons) - Pair of matching spoons, one marked "KT 1909" on the back, the other "Pewaukee". KT was my grandmother, Katherine Tisdale. This spoon was given to her on her third birthday. "Pewaukee" is my grandfather Joseph Bolles Ely Jr.'s baby spoon, Pewaukee WI being his birthplace. When my grandparents were engaged, my gr-grandmother Charlotte Richardson Ely gave my grandfather's baby spoon to my grandmother. She couldn't believe her eyes when she saw that the pattern matched her own baby spoon. She said that was the moment she knew that it was meant to be. She called these two "the Cinderella Spoons" ever after.
"AEP" - My great-great-grandmother Ann Eliza Perkins
(Not engraved yet) Gold-dipped demitasse spoon from my grandparents wedding set, to be engraved with RJW 1986, my son's initials and his birth year.
Middle row fronts:
(http://s181.photobucket.com/albums/x124/talesofthesevenseas/SpoonRackMiddleRowFronts.jpg)
Middle row backs:
(http://s181.photobucket.com/albums/x124/talesofthesevenseas/SpoonRackMiddleRowBacks.jpg)
BOTTOM ROW:
"FFA" - My great-grandmother Ellen Louise Adams' sister Fanny Fulton Adams. Fanny became one of the few female cartographers of her time and worked in Washington DC.
(Initials uncertain) - Spoon from my grandmother's family, her notes say the oldest in the collection.
(Coronation Spoon) - Spoon from the coronation of Edward VII and Alexandra, brought from England to my gr-grandmother Ellen Louise Adams by her cousin.
"IPT" - My great-great-grandmother Isabella Phoebe Tyson
"HLT" - My great-great-grandfather Hodijah Lincoln Tisdale who married Phoebe Tyson
"A" - Adams family spoon, according to my grandmother's notes, it is one of the oldest in the Adams family.
Bottom row fronts:
(http://s181.photobucket.com/albums/x124/talesofthesevenseas/SpoonRackBottomRowFronts.jpg)
Bottom row backs:
(http://s181.photobucket.com/albums/x124/talesofthesevenseas/SpoonRackBottomRowBacks.jpg)
Close-up on the coronation spoon:
(http://i181.photobucket.com/albums/x124/talesofthesevenseas/SpoonRackCoronation.jpg)
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Here's a few of the ancestors mentioned above:
Standing at far left, Ellen Louise Adams Tisdale
Standing at far right Fanny Fulton Adams
Seated at left Ann Eliza Perkins Adams
(http://i181.photobucket.com/albums/x124/talesofthesevenseas/AdamsFamily.jpg)
Joseph Bolles Ely Jr.
(http://i181.photobucket.com/albums/x124/talesofthesevenseas/JoeEly.jpg)
Charlotte Richardson Ely and Joseph Bolles Ely Sr.
(http://homepages.rootsweb.ancestry.com/~syafam/Richardson/Char&Joe.jpg)
More to come...
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tales, that's an incredible collection (or portion of ;)). To be able to have in your possession such personal and sentimental
items that connect you to your ancestors and pass along to the next generations is truly special. I love the photos as well.
You must be coming close to having your own family museum! Looking forward to more.
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What a great collection! It is wonderful to have the history and photos to go with each one, Tales! I love it!
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Tales how wonderful to have such a cherished collection of family history!! This brings back such memories for me as my grandmother had the same spoon rack in her home & I spent many and day polishing them for her and listening to our family history. unlike your collection sadly I do not know what happened to hers. So nice to see you keeping this in your family as it should be!!! ;D
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Thanks for sharing tales, Those are some wonderful spoons for sure and with History. Do you know the pattern names of the spoons? I will look through my books a bit later in the week. I have a couple of those patterns, the fifth one over on the first set, and I'm pretty sure I have the pattern of the coronation spoon but with out the Coronation stamp, not 100% sure I will have to dig around by boxes of Flatware to see. Are these silver or silverplated? Or a mix? Many silver patterns was also used on silverplate. The ones I think I have are silverplate. Once again thanks for sharing such a wonderful collection.
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Thanks guys! :) Wendy177, I too have wonderful memories of my grandmother telling me about these spoons when I was a little girl.
Answering the questions...
The spoons are a mix of sterling and plated.
No, I have not yet researched the hallmarks. I was thinking now would be a good time and I can post the info here. Some may be a problem, such as the Bolles family spoon. The Bolles family are an old colonial settlement family and the spoon is only marked with only a large letter G and 925/1000, the silver content. No makers mark. I think the only way I can get close to a date on that one will be to go to my genealogy records and find out which grandmother's maiden name was Bolles when she married into the Ely family, and will have to assume the spoon dates to that generation. Most are marked, and I believe with the exception of the Coronation spoon, most will turn out to be American in origin. I've been meaning to do this for a while, so this topic is the kick in the pants I need to get going.
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Here's the first hallmark look-up. On the way out this morning I took a quick look at the "A" Adams family spoon, last one bottom row. It is marked "Sterling" and "Freeman & Taylor"
According to this, Freeman & Taylor was a retailer in Boston in the 1890's.
http://www.sterlingflatwarefashions.com/Ret/RetF1.html (http://www.sterlingflatwarefashions.com/Ret/RetF1.html)
So if that info is right, it may not be quite as old as my grandmother thought, since Ann Eliza Perkins' spoons should turn out to predate the 1890's if she got them in childhood.
I'll put up photos of this hallmark and the Bolles spoon hallmark later tonight.
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Cool this will be fun. The one's I do know the patterns too are. In the first set, first spoon is called a tipped, made by many makers. Then the second to the last on the first set is a Olive. Very Collectible, have a couple myself. It appears your Coronation spoon is a Raymond, considered very Collectible and thin market, made by Onieda 1898. The first one in the last set kind of looks like a Newport, I say kind of because many were made in this style, just a bit different Edge. Anyway really look forward to finding out the rest. I would dig more but have to go to the real world now. I really want to find out the pierced ones you have. I think I have one, or at least have seen them in a book.
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Awesome! Thanks IronLord! That is really helpful info. After reading your post I looked for the coronation spoon and found one like mine selling for $42 on Ebay. Always nice to know what the approximate value is:
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=370296659785 (http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=370296659785)
On the pierced ones, the pair in the middle row, the "Cinderella Spoons" my grandmother refered to these as "Violet" spoons. I do not know if that was the true pattern name or if it was just what the flowers looked like to her. I'll get some hallmark photos up tonight.
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you are fortunate. to have such a nice collection of family history. I was a fraid to dig in mine. I heard they were mostly Boot leggers ;D ;D ;D
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Nice collection....nice family history! I wish we had something like this from our family.
First row at top, middle spoon, the actual bowl of the spoon is pierced with the markings of a mote spoon (tea). But the handle is not a true mote. Any markings on it.
Unfortunately I can't zoom on it.
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tales, if you want to check further into your Freeman & Taylor (or any others) maybe this site will be of some help.
http://www.campanian.org/americanspoon.html
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Sapphire, unfortunately that site a subscription fee to use their forum. :(
Ironlord, here are close-ups of the pierced-bowl spoon marked "CR" from the top row, in the center. The hallmark has a Y-shape with the letters "PLB" in it, then "STERLING" then "PAT. MN 28 08"
(http://i181.photobucket.com/albums/x124/talesofthesevenseas/SpoonRackCRFront.jpg)
(http://i181.photobucket.com/albums/x124/talesofthesevenseas/SpoonRackCRMark.jpg)
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What you have there is a R L B Rogers Lunt & Bowlen
Not sure about year or pattern yet just thought I Would share that
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You have a Monticello
http://www.replacements.com/webquote/LUSMON.htm
Looks like I need a harder one :P
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Had to look to see if I could find out what kind of spoon, it is called a sm. Sugar Shifter, almost at the bottom of the list, non available, Some really high priced flatware items here. Nice Spoon for sure.
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Found the pierced spoon above!!
MONTICELLO (STERLING,1908,MONOGRAMS) by LUNT SILVER, Sterling [LUSMON1] Pattern #: 1908
On Replacements with monogram and without.
http://www.replacements.com/webquote/LUSMON1.htm (http://www.replacements.com/webquote/LUSMON1.htm)
Funny thing is that the piercing on your bowl is totally different than any piercing on the pieces they have. If you know anything about tea/mote spoons, yours has the typical/finer markings for that. It could also be a pierced nut spoon or sugar spoon. (Example of their piercing for this pattern: http://images.replacements.com/images/images5/flatware/L/lunt_monticello_sterling_1908_pierced_tablespoon_serving_spoon_P0000052773S0103T2.jpg (http://images.replacements.com/images/images5/flatware/L/lunt_monticello_sterling_1908_pierced_tablespoon_serving_spoon_P0000052773S0103T2.jpg) I am leaning to the tea items of tea/mote spoon or sugar spoon!
NOTE: I now see that Ironlord beat me to the draw! Doggone it! Good job Ironlord! I started at the bottom of the list.
Word for the wise that I need to mention....This silver manufacturer (as well as others) ended up having patterns that were so very popular that they made them into silver plate and stainless as well. So, if you are ever looking to identify a sterling pattern and the manufacturer has silver plate and stainless listed - look at them all. Company's like Replacements only list pics that they know for sure were manufactured and they may have not seen a sterling like yours (or reverse this theory to the other items).
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Interesting. Not only is the piercing different, but the bowl itself is a completely different shape. The bowl is very round (not elongated and pointed like theirs) and it is also unusually deep, about half an inch I think. I'll post a side profile pic and some details of the bowl. It doesn't look like a spoon that would go in your mouth, but sifting sugar, scooping nuts or stiring something else would make perfect sense. Sifting seems very likely to me. My guess is that this is the Monticello pattern but that this is some kind of small, personal serving spoon rather than an eating spoon.
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Here is a Lunt Monticello sugar spoon - w/no piercings and the round bowl.
http://www.worthpoint.com/worthopedia/e-sterling-sugar-serving-spoon-monticello-by-1 (http://www.worthpoint.com/worthopedia/e-sterling-sugar-serving-spoon-monticello-by-1)
Here, the pic of it.
(http://images.replacements.com/images/images5/flatware/L/lunt_monticello_sterling_1908_small_sugar_sifter_P0000052773S0095T2.jpg)
Pierced olive spoon
(http://images.replacements.com/images/images5/flatware/L/lunt_monticello_sterling_1908_short_olive_spoon_with_pierced_bowl_P0000052773S0007T2.jpg)
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That's it! It's a sugar spoon then, mine looks exactly like the one on top. Here's the side pic so you can see the depth of the bowl. The quarter is for size comparison.
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Great collection and history.I like how you and Wendy177 have the memories tying these items to your grandmothers.Makes me wonder how many of us are into antiques because of childhood memories dealing with our grandparents.
Nice to see these in appreciative hands.
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Here is a spoon I could really use some help on. This is the unidentified "Mystery Spoon" that has an unknown monogram. If we can ID this monogram, I may be able to attribute it to someone in the family. Below are the spoon, the monogram and the only marking on it.
I think the monogram is P.A.G or T.A.G.? Any thoughts? I suspect that this is going to be one of those monograms that has the surname in the center which would make this an Adams spoon. We don't have any G surnames.
Here's a good book from 1912 with script and monogram examples throughout:
http://books.google.com/books?id=0akaAAAAYAAJ&printsec=frontcover&source=gbs_v2_summary_r&cad=0#v=onepage&q&f=false (http://books.google.com/books?id=0akaAAAAYAAJ&printsec=frontcover&source=gbs_v2_summary_r&cad=0#v=onepage&q&f=false)
This book from 1912 has some examples for reading script monograms. Go to the end of the book and click the previous page button (left facing arrow) 25 times. The pages are unnumbered.
http://books.google.com/books?id=VIcZAAAAYAAJ&printsec=frontcover&source=gbs_book_other_versions#v=onepage&q&f=false (http://books.google.com/books?id=VIcZAAAAYAAJ&printsec=frontcover&source=gbs_book_other_versions#v=onepage&q&f=false)
(http://i181.photobucket.com/albums/x124/talesofthesevenseas/SpoonRackMysterySpoon3Views.jpg)
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Looks like PAP to me!
I am betting the A is for the last name - it seems a little more pronounced. It was very common to do initials that way.
It could have belonged to a relatives dear friend....upon their death or moving gave it to you relative. This was a gesture of true friendship! I know that we got several teaspoons with other initials from my grandmother's collection. (She was not the type to "5 finger discount" anything either!)
Another idea is that times were hard during/after the depression and people had to sell their prized pieces. Others purchased as their new prize. This may be how it got in the collection as well.
The hunt is on......
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Me thinks KC has got it ! ;)
(http://i158.photobucket.com/albums/t98/geeziesmom/SpoonRackMysterySpoon3Views.jpg)
Excuse the non-caffeinated writing.
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We do have a surname Perkins, I had thought that right side letter was a G since it is larger than the P, but maybe not. I need to start hunting for some Phoebes, Pauls, Peters or Phyllis' etc. in the family that could explain the initials. This should be a family member, but I expect it's going to be a sister, aunt or something like that, since it doesn't seem to match anyone in my direct line.
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What I want to know is how many seized ships did it take to get all that booty?
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Arrr... Ye be askin' a pirate to COUNT?!!! I be numerically challenged, due to havin' a hook at the end o' me sleeve, severely impedin' the number o' ships a pirate can count on one hand!
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Now I see why they are all spoons, alot easier to eat with than a knife and fork when you have a shortage of hands.
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Ya'll are toooooo funny!!!!
Thought of you when I was looking through my old bottles section and this came up! No old but funny! Lots of pirate stuff!
(http://www.detailsart.com/ProductImages/1024_hk_sculptures/1024-A-0075-P1-MD.jpg)
http://www.squidoo.com/Piratesgifts (http://www.squidoo.com/Piratesgifts)
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Has anyone been able to identify the "Terry" hallmark on this spoon? I've searched and I'm coming up empty handed. The marks I'm finding for Terry & Co and for another Cork Terry do not match this one. Anyone having better luck? If I can figure out the date of the spoon, I might have a better chance attributing the monogram to the correct person. I suspect this will turn out to be an American mark since the family has been here since colonial times. Thanks!
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Tales, is this it?
http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.ancestry.com/~silversmiths/makers/silversmiths/50932.htm
http://www.replacements.com/webquote/GTEGTE1.htm
http://www.replacements.com/webquote/GTEGTE2.htm
(http://i158.photobucket.com/albums/t98/geeziesmom/SpoonRackMysterySpoon3Views-1.jpg)(http://i158.photobucket.com/albums/t98/geeziesmom/geer_terry_gte1_coin_five_o_clock_t.jpg)
(http://i158.photobucket.com/albums/t98/geeziesmom/50932_1_terrygeer4.jpg)
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YES!! ;D Good goin' Sapphire!
Looks like my pattern is Geer Terry's "GTE2", five o'clock teaspoon in coin silver, the second link you have listed. (Photo example below) I think it's this one with the "shoulders" on the handle of the spoon, rather than the smooth one. Although my example doesn't look like the shoulders are as sharp as this one. But the Mark is dead on.
Wow, this is an OLD one! I'm sure my grandmother had no idea that that spoon was that old. She had other ones indicated as older which were not. I didn't think it was going to go back that far. Way coo!!! Now I know where to start hunting for those initials. Many thanks Sapphire, I was coming up with nothing on that Hallmark. You rock!
(http://images.replacements.com/images/images5/flatware/G/geer_terry_gte2_coin_five_o_clock_teaspoon_P0000363476S0001T2.jpg)
(http://i158.photobucket.com/albums/t98/geeziesmom/SpoonRackMysterySpoon3Views-1.jpg)
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;) Found two more sites in the search...........
http://chicagosilver.com/marks_master_list.htm
http://www.sterlingflatwarefashions.com/index.html
Gotta love that first one!
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Here is the date info from Sapphire's link. His Worcester MA location puts Geer Terry right in the right location for my family too:
He worked from 1797 to 1814 as a silversmith in Worcester MA 3
Advertised in the The Massachusetts Spy, 20 May 1801, "Geer Terry, Watchmaker, Silversmith and Jeweler, . . . has removed to the building formerly occupied by the Clerk of the Court, nearly opposite Mr. Waldo's Store; where he ... has for sale; gold beads, rings, earrings, and stone nubs, silver table, tea and salt spoons, buckles, buttons, thimbles, sugar tongs, &c. &c. of his own make, warranted to be good and cheap for Cash. . . . Cash given for old gold and silver." 3
He was a partner before 1814 with Moses Wing in Worcester MA 3
He was a partner from 1814 to 1815 with Aaron Willard in Worcester MA
The Worcester Gazette of Jan. 4, 1815 told of dissolution of firm by mutual consent. 3
He worked from 1816 to 1858 as a silversmith in Enfield CT 3
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Sapphire, we should definitely add that first link to the Special Threads and Exceptional Information section of the forum. Great resource.
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Nice spoons , talesof .
Very good research efforts/results by everybody !
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Thanks! Finding out it was that old totally made my day!
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Awesome!!! Tales I am about 20 min. outside of Worcester MA. Would love to know what stands now where his business was. Will try to get to the old archives in Worcester this weekend & see what I can dig up. Would be very interesting if he kept a written ledger of pieces sold & to who. any family names I should be on the lookout for?? Will see if I can copy any photos of the business itself or ledgers. what fun!!! ;D
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Tales, any chance you have a subscription to Genealogybank.com ?
http://www.genealogybank.com/gbnk/newspapers/explore/USA/Massachusetts/Worcester/?sort=_rank_%3AD&lname=terry&fname=geer&minit=&kwinc=silver&kwexc=&formDate=&processingtime=
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Wendy177: Thank-you!!! That would be fantastic! There are two family surnames that could be related to the monogram on this spoon that might turn up- Adams (our most likely candidate) and Perkins (less likely). I'll do some hunting for an ancestor or relation whose initials match the spoon on Ancestry.com.
Sapphire: No, my subscription is with Ancestry.com, but I should have access to the same newspaper database through Ancestry. I'll run some searches on Geer Terry and see what comes up.
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Here's another spoon I could use some help identifying. This is the spoon shown on the top left of the rack marked "Bolles". This is the same Bolles-Bradbury family who lost John Bradbury in the explosion of the Jenny Lind in 1853. I have a couple of additional serving pieces that all come from New Haven CT, where the family was located prior to coming to Guilford NY.
Here is the Bolles spoon, front side. All that is marked on the back is "G 925/1000". I know the 925/100 is the silver content, but I don't know if "G" tells us anything or not. I'm unable to locate the maker, however I do see some identical spoons with this mark on Worthpoint and Ebay.
Research whiz kids, can you find anything I've missed? This info along with photos of the Bolles spoon and a whole lot more will be going to the files on John Bradbury at the Guilford Historical Society.
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Tales I did find a Christopher Gallup to be a silversmith in North Groton CT c1800 and a John Gardiner also in New London CT. c 1760-1776. W Rogers from Wallingford Ct. also produced a spoon pattern name TIPPED that matches your spoons style but his makers mark does not match yours. Conelius Kierstede was a silversmith in New Haven CT. c 1675-1757 and I believe he had several apprentices ( may be one of those) will hit the archives again this weekend if time allows.
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Thanks for looking!
I think the trick will be matching that letter "G" in front of the 925/1000. See how it has that funny "tail" on the front side of the G? I've never seen that before, so it seems like if we can find a "G 925/1000" hallmark with this style of letter G, we'll have the right maker/date.
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Tales did more digging and maybe you could contact Yale University Art Gallery P.O. Box 208271 New Haven, CT 06520-8271.
The Montgomery Prize, presented annually for "the most distinguished contribution to the study of American decorative arts published in the English language in the given year," was presented to the American Arts Office of the Yale University Art Gallery for Patricia E. Kane, ed., Colonial Massachusetts Silversmiths and Jewelers (New Haven, CT: Yale University Art Gallery, 1998). More than 70 years ago, Francis Hill Bigelow began to compile biographical information on Massachusetts silversmiths. With Bigelow's death in 1933, his notes were passed along to John Marshall Phillips, the curator of the Garvan Collection, who then added to them extensively during his career at the Yale Art Gallery.
Over the years many other scholars added to those files, resulting in a wealth of detailed information on silversmiths and their wares. Patricia Kane spearheaded a major publication effort by many scholars to compile this date in a single volume. Using the Bigelow-Phillips files as the foundation, Kane coordinated a team of scholars and graduate students who cross-checked information; combed court records, probate records, town records, genealogies, and manuscripts to identify silversmiths and flush out their lives; and secondary sources such as collection catalogues and auction catalogues to document all known objects and marks.
Maybe someone there could shed some light. http://artgallery.yale.edu/pages/collection/permanent/pc_american,php
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Thanks Wendy! I will follow up on that! There are two other "B" engraved pieces in the family, a pie server and a fruit server. Both of these date to the 1870's-80's. So they would have been given to my great-great-grandmother through the Bolles family members who raised her after her father's death, rather than dating to earlier times of her grandparents. I suspect that this Bolles spoon will end up dating to the same approximate time frame, but it is possible that it may be earlier. It will be interesting to find out. Thanks very much for your help!
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This is the typewriter style G....became popular once typewriters became the "in" thing. Haven't seen it paired like this.