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Antiques! => Antique Questions Forum => Topic started by: talesofthesevenseas on May 18, 2010, 11:02:00 AM
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Hi gang,
I've been working on stripping the last of some old white paint from an 1870's cast iron match safe. The last of it won't budge. This is a sturdy piece, with just slight surface rust and is structurally sound. It is ornate with a lot of grooves with paint lodged in them, but the paint isn't coming off the smooth surfaces either.
I have tried soaking the match safe in Citristrip paint stripper overnight, but it isn't losening at all. Citristrip is what I have used on other antiques and it has worked well in the past, even on old marine paint. It is a little gentler than other stripping agents but with a little patience, it does the trick without harming the item. But not this time. Any suggestions? I've been working at it for several days with lots of scrubbing, but to no avail. It appears to have been painted many years ago and I think I'm dealing with some pretty tough paint.
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I am assuming this is lead based paint? I am sure it was originally baked on. Have you tried a heat gun Tales? I would be very careful as the fumes may be poisonous. Use outdoors for sure and stay downwind. The heat should soften the paint and the cast iron would take the heat without any color change. Just do not heat cast iron too hot or it will crack. I would not use a torch with an open flame. When the paint softens, quickly pick out the paint from the nooks and crannies with a wood or bamboo pick. I buy bamboo skewers used for kabobs and use them for mixing small amounts of glue and small stir sticks. I can also cut them off and sharpen the tips repeatedly and use them for dropping pinpoints of glue in spots. They should also work for scraping off small bits of soft paint.
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Good advice Wayward but I think you should stay upwind, not downwind.
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HAHA! Good catch syl! I agree, upwind is MUCH better than downwind. What was I thinking? ;D
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The heat gun sounds like a good idea, and I'll wear a mask, just in case the wind shifts on me! ;)
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if the paint continues to resist. & the metal is stable enough, you can use a BernzOmatic torch. light weight & easy to use. just avoid the fumes. most any hard ware store has them. & there cheap.
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OK sounds like a plan. I am betting the heat gun will do the trick. I've used a heat gun to remove varnish from wood, but I hadn't thought to try it on paint. I'll be really careful about the fumes, the last thing I want to do is to inhale lead paint fumes!
Here is a "before" pic. It's just a little twenty buck restoration project that looked like fun. It's kind of a cool little match safe, with a self-closing flap lid, striker plate, and the manufacturer's name "C. Parker" and an 1869/1870 patent date on the lid. Most of the paint you see here I was able to get off, it's the last stubborn spots that won't let go. Soap/water and olive oil has taken care of most of the rust and should keep it from advancing.
(http://i181.photobucket.com/albums/x124/talesofthesevenseas/MatchSafeBefore.jpg)
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If I was certain that this tough old finish was not baked-on enamel , I'd just break out the nastiest stripper (for paint) that I could find & go @ it that way .
Cast Iron is tough & can take it .
The other method I'd use a would be a propane torch & wire brush (a softie , though) .
I had a pair of cast iron items , similar to yours , which I had powder-coated (to sort of an 'ivory' hue) .
They turned out remarkably well & went over big with the bride & groom who rcd them as a wedding gift .
Way not as cheap as a coat of paint , but just a diff way to toss money around , I guess .
Cool match safe , talesof !
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That's a thought Fancypants. When I chose Citristrip I had asked for a gentle stripping agent designed for antiques. You can even get it on your hands for short periods of time and it doesn't hurt them. It isn't one of those harsh stripping agents that makes the paint "boil" off, but it gently loosens it. I've used it on several antique wood items and it worked great, but that's a thought, maybe I should tray some heavy-duty stripper on this since the cast iron is tough.
Especially since I'm not sure where the heat gun ended up after the last project!
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Tales, I think that Parker is the same one that made the famous double barrel shotguns. I will have to look it up later in my gun memorabilia book. There is a pic of a Parker matchsafe and I think it is all black and original. I will check to see if it is identical to yours. If it is, it is more than a $20 item.
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No kidding! That would be cool! Please do let me know!
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You sparked my curiousity Waywardangler and I went hunting. It IS the same Parker according to this page which shows an earlier match safe of Parkers:
http://www.thelampworks.com/lw_companies_parker.htm (http://www.thelampworks.com/lw_companies_parker.htm)
But if you click the link on that page that says "Match safes" it takes you to this page, which shows one identical to mine:
http://www.thelampworks.com/lw_match_holder.htm (http://www.thelampworks.com/lw_match_holder.htm)
And here's one selling on a firearms collectibles site for $175! http://www.sportingcollectibles.com/parker.html (http://www.sportingcollectibles.com/parker.html)
Woo-hoo! SCORE! (So nice when this happens!) Thanks for the heads-up on this one Wayward! Yup, I definitely have to get all that paint off!
(http://www.personalmantrapanchatantra.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/03/animated_monkey.gif)
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Well Tales, I see you have discovered your matchsafe is by 'The' Parker Company. The one in my book is identical and it is all black. If you bought that out of a shop for $20, you did real good!
Nice jumping monkey but a happy hopping pirate would have been quite the to-do. Aaarrrrrrr!
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Thanks Wayward! It was an Ebay purchase, $24.99 to be precise.
I stopped by the hardware store on my way home and picked up some Jasco Premium Paint and Epoxy remover, plus the nitrile solvent gloves needed to protect my hands. they said this stuff would burn. So I think it will do the trick to remove the last of the paint.
This is how it looks now, after Citristrip, but before Jasco. I think it may need a little rust remover too, but I'll see how it looks after the Jasco stripper:
(http://i181.photobucket.com/albums/x124/talesofthesevenseas/MatchSafeHalfDone.jpg)
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Oh yes... and here's the happy pirate digging up treasure Wayward!
(http://www.animationbuddy.com/Animation/Jobs_and_People/Sailors_and_Pirates/Pirate_digs.gif)
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I must be emoticon challenged. You never cease to amaze me with what you come up with Tales. Nice deal on the matchsafe off eBay and it looks pretty good so far. Can't wait to see the final result.
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Sandblast away paint from metal using a sandblaster if needed. These machines rent by the day, yet are available for sale at home improvement or hardware stores. Blowing sand onto the metal piece under great pressure strips all of the unwanted paint from the metal work.
Hope this helps, please look at my site
http://gingertomantiques.yolasite.com/
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Sandblasting probably is the best solution but you would be better off to find a local sandblasting company and have them do it for you. They might even do it for free.
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I think I would only use sandblasting as a last resort if the Jasco stuff and the heat gun both failed. I'll never forget seeing a beautiful wooden carousel horse back in the 1970's that someone had sandblasted to get the paint off of it. It was pitted all over and seriously devalued.
I realize that probably wouldn't be the case with iron, but I think I'd want to save sandblasting as a last resort for any antique after only after gentler methods had failed. That's always been my approach to try the gentlest things first and only move to more aggressive methods if absolutely necessary. ...or am I being paranoid when it comes to sandblasting? I realize we're talkin' iron here, but I would hate to see the lettering lose any sharp edges as well as the small lines of the detailing.
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Soda blasting is much more gentle , and does take some time .
Sandblasting causes so much ablation that it's not really recommended for many/most antique items .
Sand/soda/shot/bead blasting results do very much depend upon the skills & attention given by the blast operator , as well as the quality of the blast mat'ls & equipment .
Blasting does produce very good-to-fair results on rusty metals (cars , ships , etc.) and buildings , but I consider blasting the first option for the impatient .
As D&b mentioned in a post above these , stability of metal is always a consideration with many antique metals .
Heat & ablation can cause small-to-large portions of a metal object to crack , break &/or to be lost forever .
I'm for slow-and-steady 'winning the race' , rather than quick used-for-production methods (while refinishing/restoring antiques) .
That's just my cautionary opinion , though .
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Nice find Talesof!
I tend to be the take-it-one-step-at-a-time person as well....since I devalued a few things over the years!
Sandblasting is the absolute last choice for me....I would probably go ahead and paint over the last little bit and consider it an extra seal on the item instead of sandblasting. If you go back to the original black...it won't matter as long as the paint is in the crevices.
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My goal is to get the old paint off, take it down to the original iron and oil it. No new paint. So I need to get the paint and rust off. I'll try that Jasco paint n' flesh remover in a couple of days.
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Comprenday! Let us know!
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How about electrolysis?
I read it has decent results with stubborn paint and rust and maybe you would have everything you need in your garage.
Might need a couple of attempts but thought I'd throw it out there and see what anyone with 1st hand experience might have to say.
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I'd probably zap myself trying, LOL!
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Tell your kids to try it for you. :D
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Yes Dean, I have read about that as I find a lot of old rusty tools and would like an easier way than hand cleaning with steel wool. The setups I have read about entail some type of tank (5 gallon bucket), a battery, some electolyte solution, and some wire. I have not tried it as I always wondered what I would do with the solution when done and where I would store it. It is detailed here and seems simple enough...http://www.rickswoodshopcreations.com/Miscellaneous/Rust_Removal.htm
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I think if the Jasco doesn't work I could also take it to a metal plating shop where they have it set up already and could probably get it done for a couple of bucks.
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Tales, have them plate it in nickle. Now that would look COOL on that Parker matchsafe! 8)
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Another suggestion for your consideration :
when you're done torturing your cool iron item (& yourself) , you could simply finish it with some good 'ole paste wax (Johnsons &/or etc.) & a toothbrush (for gettin' into the crannies) .
Give it a little buff with a rag & you're done (& you don't have to worry about oiling it so much) .
I had a friend who owned scads of iron items .... after years of using lamp-black , he switched over to black (paste Kiwi) shoe polish & never went back .
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Tales I have found from working on my trunk That a dremel tool with round wire brush works excellent at removing rust & paint from metal. It is small enough to get in all detail work & gentle enough to not do any damage and on a piece as small as yours will take only minutes. They can be purchased at any home depot with all accessories needed. wear eye protection as the little wires from the brush do fly off!! No mess with chemicals or goo. good luck!! ;D
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Another suggestion for your consideration :
when you're done torturing your cool iron item (& yourself) , you could simply finish it with some good 'ole paste wax (Johnsons &/or etc.) & a toothbrush (for gettin' into the crannies) .
Give it a little buff with a rag & you're done (& you don't have to worry about oiling it so much) .
I had a friend who owned scads of iron items .... after years of using lamp-black , he switched over to black (paste Kiwi) shoe polish & never went back .
Sounds like a useful tip Fancypants.Thanks.
I like how this procedure could be easily reversed if desired.
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Love the past wax idea!!!! Never thought about it! I would even heat the item slightly in the oven first to "open" the pores then put it on! Much like starting the seasoning on a skillet.
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One word of caution with the Dremel tool, I have used mine to remove corrosion on metal items before, but be SURE to wear a mask when doing that. The Dremel puts all that stuff you're taking off into the air and it's easy to breathe it in. I coughed for several days and had some throat irritation. Nothing serious, but I would definitely wear a mask in addition to eye protection if I were to go that route again.
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Today I used the Jasco AND the Dremel tool and got almost all of the paint off. There are still some left over rust stains and a few bits of paint that were not as visible when the whole thing was wet. I'll have another shot at it next weekend. It looks like I will need to use a rust remover to get the last of the rust off. it seems to be down in the pores of the iron and not just on the surface where the Dremel wire brush can get at it.
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Naval Jelly will clean rust out of pores but also leave the metal looking 'cleaned' without any patina. I am not sure how much you want to clean this.
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Clean is OK on this one. The patent date is there and I'm hoping to have it come out looking as nice as the one up for sale on the gun collectibles page. It is looking a lot better. Thanks for the tip on Naval jelly.
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I started back in on this project this weekend, and got a VERY good tip from my cast iron forum-
They advised putting the match safe in a plastic baggie, then putting in the Jasco paint stripper and sealing the bag. This did two things. First and most importantly, it kept the Jasco from losing strength when it comes in contact with the air. Second, it enabled me to direct the Jasco gel to the areas where it was needed and it holds it in place instead of slipping off the piece. The paint came off with very little effort after that.
The naval jelly worked great for getting off the rust in short order too.
So here is the match safe, cleaned and freshly oiled:
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Compare to how it was:
(http://i181.photobucket.com/albums/x124/talesofthesevenseas/MatchSafeBefore.jpg)
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Tales that is incredible! You must be so pleased with the results. Never would have expected it to return to it's original 'look' with only just removing the rust. Now you've got to detail this process and post it in the Special Threads section! ;)
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OK will do! That's a good idea to log it into the special threads section. Actually this was two-stage process, first to remove the paint, then to tackle the rust. The result really did turn out beautiful. It was still wet and slippery when I took the pics from being oiled, so that shiney look isn't normally there. but it is nice and black and I was really pleased with how getting years of rust, gunk and paint out of the lettering made the patent info on the self-closing lid stand out.
...Now I just have to decide which wall to hang it on! ;)
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Nice work Talesof!
Agree with sapphire....this would do great in the special threads section!
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It's in there!
http://www.antique-shop.com/forums/index.php?topic=7105.0 (http://www.antique-shop.com/forums/index.php?topic=7105.0)