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Antiques! => Antique Questions Forum => Topic started by: Julekpl on May 22, 2010, 08:11:59 PM

Title: Eastman Kodak camera, with interesting history...I need to know it's worth!
Post by: Julekpl on May 22, 2010, 08:11:59 PM
I recently purchased an Eastman kodak camera, Patent march 4th 1902-may 6th 1913, and it has probably had a few adventures....Here's what came with it...
(http://i838.photobucket.com/albums/zz303/JulekD/P1000093.jpg)

I believe it belonged to a Harvey E. Hall USMC 5th Brigade, since the person's name is etched in the back...This person was supposedly in the YMCA during ww1-ww2 era, and was stationed in Brest, France. He etched the names of the people and places he met and visited....
(http://i838.photobucket.com/albums/zz303/JulekD/P1000083.jpg)
But it does have a umber of dents and scratches...And I'm not sure if it still works....
(http://i838.photobucket.com/albums/zz303/JulekD/P1000084.jpg)
(http://i838.photobucket.com/albums/zz303/JulekD/P1000085.jpg)
Here is a booklet of postcards I believe were issued to the men stationed in France to send postcards back to the family, most of them are there, and in great condition.
(http://i838.photobucket.com/albums/zz303/JulekD/P1000087.jpg)
Here are just a few postcards in the booklet (out of 19 total, sorry for the long post)

(http://i838.photobucket.com/albums/zz303/JulekD/P1000089.jpg)
This is the YMCA booklet issued, which informs the stationed men there what places to visit, and such.
(http://i838.photobucket.com/albums/zz303/JulekD/P1000090.jpg)
Places of interest in France...
(http://i838.photobucket.com/albums/zz303/JulekD/P1000091.jpg)

     Sorry again for the extended post...Anyways, does anyone have an idea on the price range of this set? I would appreciate it...I just started collecting antiques recently, so I hope I'm doing good finding objects of certain historical and monetary value...Thanks anyway!
Title: Re: Eastman Kodak camera, with interesting history...I need to know it's worth!
Post by: fancypants on May 22, 2010, 08:52:36 PM
Nice little combo .

Money-wise , kinda hard to say .

The fact that the camera has been marked (prob. by the indicated owner) with locations in Brittany prob. does mean that it & he were there ( post-liberation of France ) , & makes it much more interesting than an old , burnt-out camera .

These cameras were pretty low cost units (but they did have fairly good optics for their price) .

My opinion is that the most value is related to who , where , when & why these items were together .... (keeping in mind that I'm not expert in this type of memorabilia) !

I'm guessing that not only the camera & brochure made it back from Europe , but the owner did too (good for him) !
Title: Re: Eastman Kodak camera, with interesting history...I need to know it's worth!
Post by: Julekpl on May 22, 2010, 08:58:35 PM
Well thanks, any info helps. Unfortunately I couldn't locate the owner nor any relatives, but yeah, the camera itself is known to sell for a small monetary amount on ebay...but I'm probably keeping this for a while. 
Title: Re: Eastman Kodak camera, with interesting history...I need to know it's worth!
Post by: Julekpl on May 22, 2010, 09:30:34 PM
Anyone else know anything more about this set?
Title: Re: Eastman Kodak camera, with interesting history...I need to know it's worth!
Post by: talesofthesevenseas on May 22, 2010, 09:37:13 PM
I suspect the camera would have value to military collectors, but I'm not qualified to make that kind of an assessment. It's tough with a unique altered piece like yours.
Title: Re: Eastman Kodak camera, with interesting history...I need to know it's worth!
Post by: Julekpl on May 22, 2010, 09:39:03 PM
Yeah, I'll have a go at finding a price in the military section...but I'm probably going to keep onto this for a few more years, or until I'm low on cash.
Title: Re: Eastman Kodak camera, with interesting history...I need to know it's worth!
Post by: waywardangler on May 23, 2010, 10:45:29 AM
I do not know much about military history so I am curious as to what the YMCA had to do with WWI (or WWII) other than a place to stay?  I would not expect much value to be attributed to this camera unless the owner has some sort of fame attached to his travels and you can attach some provenance to it.

A nice group of WWI memorabilia but of what significance or monetary value it has is questionable.  If you find out something of significance attached to this camera/group (like some historic photo) I would strike while the iron is hot and sell it.
Title: Re: Eastman Kodak camera, with interesting history...I need to know it's worth!
Post by: KC on May 24, 2010, 10:11:25 AM
Nice group of memorabilia!!!!! There is value in it....just need to find out more about the owner!!!!

Reference the YMCA and WWI....here is a good site..
http://www.worldwar1.com/dbc/ymca.htm (http://www.worldwar1.com/dbc/ymca.htm)
Title: Re: Eastman Kodak camera, with interesting history...I need to know it's worth!
Post by: waywardangler on May 24, 2010, 11:56:21 AM
Very informative site, KC!  I did not know the YMCA predates the civil war and helped during the civil war let alone more present wars.  I learned someting new today.

Given that history Julekpl, I would look into the YMCA aspect in depth.  Harvey E. Hall may be in their historical records.  Happy searching!
Title: Re: Eastman Kodak camera, with interesting history...I need to know it's worth!
Post by: Julekpl on May 24, 2010, 02:51:03 PM
Hey thanks so much to everyone for the help, I'll write to them, maybe he might be on record, thanks again!
Title: Re: Eastman Kodak camera, with interesting history...I need to know it's worth!
Post by: sapphire on May 24, 2010, 04:23:14 PM
Here's a little bit of history on the 5th Brigade....

http://books.google.com/books?id=YiZRC8bsOuoC&pg=PA742&lpg=PA742&dq=usmc+5th+brigade+brest&source=bl&ots=eUNGDQ3qQU&sig=W7A31NblR23F9l96vjj7y8L-Tls&hl=en&ei=kPT6S9y0MsSblgez8LDMCg&sa=X&oi=book_result&ct=result&resnum=8&ved=0CC8Q6AEwBw#v=onepage&q&f=false

http://books.google.com/books?id=4QsQBmTauvQC&pg=PA40&dq=usmc+5th+brigade+brest&lr=&ei=S_j6S4HVGJGcywTmseieCg&cd=14#v=onepage&q&f=false

http://books.google.com/books?id=-3SWUovKGzIC&pg=PA103&dq=usmc+5th+brigade+brest&lr=&ei=-fj6S_HcHZ62ywSirczSCg&cd=22#v=onepage&q&f=false


Title: Re: Eastman Kodak camera, with interesting history...I need to know it's worth!
Post by: sapphire on May 24, 2010, 04:35:58 PM
Don't know if this relates to your Harvey Hall.......

Page 95, item #98

http://www.marines.mil/news/publications/Documents/A%20Brief%20History%20of%20the%208th%20Marines%20%20PCN%2019000318000.pdf
Title: Re: Eastman Kodak camera, with interesting history...I need to know it's worth!
Post by: talesofthesevenseas on May 24, 2010, 05:32:08 PM
I found USMC muster rolls for Harvey E Hall Company C Machine Gun Battalion 5th Brigade, AEF France, Barracks @ Paris Island SC, also with Company D Machine Gun Battalion, also with the 5th Brigade, through Ancestry.com. Would you like copies?
Title: Re: Eastman Kodak camera, with interesting history...I need to know it's worth!
Post by: Julekpl on May 24, 2010, 05:33:12 PM
Wow that's surprising...Elmer E . Hall might have been Harvey E. Hall's son or grandson, and both could have served in the USMC...I'll look this guy up, thanks sapphire!
Title: Re: Eastman Kodak camera, with interesting history...I need to know it's worth!
Post by: Julekpl on May 24, 2010, 05:35:47 PM
Yes please! Thank you talesofthesevenseas!
Title: Re: Eastman Kodak camera, with interesting history...I need to know it's worth!
Post by: talesofthesevenseas on May 24, 2010, 06:07:29 PM
Document 1:
Title: Re: Eastman Kodak camera, with interesting history...I need to know it's worth!
Post by: talesofthesevenseas on May 24, 2010, 06:11:04 PM
Document 2:
Title: Re: Eastman Kodak camera, with interesting history...I need to know it's worth!
Post by: talesofthesevenseas on May 24, 2010, 06:12:42 PM
Document 3:
Title: Re: Eastman Kodak camera, with interesting history...I need to know it's worth!
Post by: talesofthesevenseas on May 24, 2010, 06:13:28 PM
Document 5:
Title: Re: Eastman Kodak camera, with interesting history...I need to know it's worth!
Post by: talesofthesevenseas on May 24, 2010, 06:16:21 PM
Document 4: (sorry this one is out of sequence)
Title: Re: Eastman Kodak camera, with interesting history...I need to know it's worth!
Post by: talesofthesevenseas on May 24, 2010, 06:19:11 PM
Pension card listing a wife named Mary in 1920:
Title: Re: Eastman Kodak camera, with interesting history...I need to know it's worth!
Post by: talesofthesevenseas on May 24, 2010, 06:21:38 PM
These next ones do not match with "5th Brigade" which was given on the camera and may be a different Harvey E. Hall, or he may have been transferred. I've marked these files with "MAYBE"
Title: Re: Eastman Kodak camera, with interesting history...I need to know it's worth!
Post by: talesofthesevenseas on May 24, 2010, 06:22:49 PM
The next "MAYBE" document:
Title: Re: Eastman Kodak camera, with interesting history...I need to know it's worth!
Post by: talesofthesevenseas on May 24, 2010, 06:24:53 PM
Last one, also a "MAYBE":
Title: Re: Eastman Kodak camera, with interesting history...I need to know it's worth!
Post by: Julekpl on May 24, 2010, 06:25:21 PM
Hey Talesofthesevenseas ....I believe you found him....
(http://i838.photobucket.com/albums/zz303/JulekD/P1000099.jpg)
here is his name and address, just like on the muster. Thanks so much!
Title: Re: Eastman Kodak camera, with interesting history...I need to know it's worth!
Post by: talesofthesevenseas on May 24, 2010, 06:27:09 PM
Woohoo!! High five!  :D


It will take a little more research to find out if some of the ones that don't exactly match are the same Harvey or not. You might be able to compare some of the info on the ones you can definitely associate with your camera.
Title: Re: Eastman Kodak camera, with interesting history...I need to know it's worth!
Post by: Julekpl on May 24, 2010, 06:30:13 PM
Wow well thanks so much for your time, and sorry for wasting it, but hey, now I know this person existed and I may be able to find some relatives!

  THANKS!! ;D
Title: Re: Eastman Kodak camera, with interesting history...I need to know it's worth!
Post by: KC on May 24, 2010, 10:38:42 PM
Isn't this site great!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Title: Re: Eastman Kodak camera, with interesting history...I need to know it's worth!
Post by: regularjoe2 on May 24, 2010, 11:44:58 PM
Tip-top Tip 'o the tophat to talesoftheccccccc !

Nice work there !
Title: Re: Eastman Kodak camera, with interesting history...I need to know it's worth!
Post by: talesofthesevenseas on May 25, 2010, 12:52:06 AM
Glad I could help, that Ancestry.com subscription comes in handy!

That pension card is hard to read, but it lists Mary as his widow in 1920. It is quite possible there were no children.
Title: Re: Eastman Kodak camera, with interesting history...I need to know it's worth!
Post by: sapphire on May 25, 2010, 05:56:42 AM
Wondering if this ancestry account of Minna Wilson might be another clue?

http://www.genealogy.com/users/h/a/l/Scott-P-Hall/FILE/0001text.txt

"1.  Minna Vivian Wilson, born October 16, 1939 in Washington, D.C..  She was the daughter of 2. Charles Richard Wilson and 3. Minna Rozetta Cannon.  She married (1) William Harvey Hall, M.D. June 22, 1963 in Fairfax, Virginia.  He was born October 18, 1935 in New York, New York.  He was the son of Harvey Hall and Mary Emily Praeger Allen."
Title: Re: Eastman Kodak camera, with interesting history...I need to know it's worth!
Post by: sapphire on May 25, 2010, 06:04:29 AM
If the above link is going in the right direction then here is another (likely current) generation .......

http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.ancestry.com/~dantrogers/pafg2568.htm#51268      

Check last three entries.


Edited to add another link........

Starting at Generation 10
(continues on to include the birth of a son to Scott Hall in 2000)

http://www.genealogy.com/users/h/a/l/Scott-P-Hall/FILE/0003text.txt


Really hoping these are linked to the right Harvey Hall......would be incredible if you were able to trace that camera to his family.

Title: Re: Eastman Kodak camera, with interesting history...I need to know it's worth!
Post by: sapphire on May 25, 2010, 06:37:12 AM
OK, ignore those last posts......pretty sure I got the wrong Harvey Hall  :(
Was trying to track him using his wife, Mary E.  Guess more than one Harvey married
a Mary.  ;)
Title: Re: Eastman Kodak camera, with interesting history...I need to know it's worth!
Post by: talesofthesevenseas on May 25, 2010, 08:01:05 AM
Yeah I got sidetracked too by a Harvey E Hall and Mary E Hall living in Onieda NY. They appear on the census records but their dates are way too early (Harvey b. 1944) and they lived too long (1930 census) to be the same Harvey. I had hoped these would turn out to be his parents, but I couldn't find a matching son named Harvey. There might be more thorough pension information on Footnote.
Title: Re: Eastman Kodak camera, with interesting history...I need to know it's worth!
Post by: sapphire on May 25, 2010, 12:23:15 PM
Any idea around what decade he would have been born to have served in 1919? I've heard of some awfully young 'boys' enlisting but that's more likely a rarity then the norm. The Harvey I was looking at would only have been around 15 and found a full bio on him (US Navy) through the Arlington cemetery.
Title: Re: Eastman Kodak camera, with interesting history...I need to know it's worth!
Post by: talesofthesevenseas on May 25, 2010, 12:56:09 PM
15 would be awfully young to be married also. Not impossible, but young nonetheless. Did the bio you found match the military records? With Monroe NY and a perfect match on the name, It does look like the right military record, so the Arlington bio should match the military service cards if it is the same Harvey.
Title: Re: Eastman Kodak camera, with interesting history...I need to know it's worth!
Post by: sapphire on May 25, 2010, 02:01:18 PM
This is the Harvey Hall that matches up with the links I posted earlier.  Think it would be too good to true.......haven't tried to correspond any dates and there is no mention of earlier service than WWII. Unless it was a very short stint then on to college  ::)

http://www.arlingtoncemetery.net/harvey-hall.htm
Title: Re: Eastman Kodak camera, with interesting history...I need to know it's worth!
Post by: Julekpl on May 25, 2010, 02:35:10 PM
This might be him...it says he did teach in New York, and the camera says "Monroe N.Y" but the last name "Hall" is and was very common. But still...so he would be in the YMCA in France at the age of 15? During ww1?
Title: Re: Eastman Kodak camera, with interesting history...I need to know it's worth!
Post by: sapphire on May 25, 2010, 02:53:13 PM
I don't know if he was 'in' the YMCA, rather the YMCA was known (from what I've recently read) for relief camps and support for troops
and were likely in Brest for the troops arrivals. The pamphlet you have looks to have been distributed to personnel to orient them and
offer services.
Title: Re: Eastman Kodak camera, with interesting history...I need to know it's worth!
Post by: Julekpl on May 25, 2010, 03:00:37 PM
yeah that's true...gosh I hate looking for people with common names....
Title: Re: Eastman Kodak camera, with interesting history...I need to know it's worth!
Post by: sapphire on May 25, 2010, 03:05:14 PM
And to make it even more mind boggling......found a Harvey E. Hall listed from Wilmington, Delaware.  Not being greatly familiar with US
geography, all I know is it's relatively close to NY.

Apparently this site gives some of the Wilmington history from 1937 onwards. No indication of a date when this 'store' was in existence.

Under Appliance/Repair Stores....

http://www.oldwilmington.net/oldwilmington/stores.htm





Now are you thoroughly befuddled???  :D
Title: Re: Eastman Kodak camera, with interesting history...I need to know it's worth!
Post by: talesofthesevenseas on May 25, 2010, 03:27:53 PM
The Arlington Harvey Hall can't be the same as the Harvey E. Hall in the military records, which match the camera. That Harvey E. Hall leaves his wife Mary E. Hall a WIDOW on the pension record in 1920. He died long before the man at Arlington.
Title: Re: Eastman Kodak camera, with interesting history...I need to know it's worth!
Post by: sapphire on May 25, 2010, 03:42:21 PM
I wonder if there's any way to trace military deaths from USMC from that time period?  I gave it a try and came up with zip.  :(

Finally, I see a use for Social Insurance Numbers.  ;)