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Antiques! => Antique Questions Forum => Topic started by: hosman321 on November 10, 2010, 09:39:12 AM
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Haven't posted anything in awhile, having withdrawls. ;)
I'm going to pick up this table later today and was hoping to get a bit more info. Like what company made it and where. Kind of obvious when it was made. Although I'm assuming that is the patent date and it could have been made later. I doubt they dated each table the day it was made but I suppose I could be wrong. The last digit of the date is unknown. I think this is the correct patent but I don't know. Does it look like it is? The date is wrong though.
http://www.google.com/patents?id=iH9AAAAAEBAJ&pg=PA1&dq=table&as_drrb_ap=q&as_minm_ap=0&as_miny_ap=&as_maxm_ap=0&as_maxy_ap=&as_drrb_is=b&as_minm_is=0&as_miny_is=1860&as_maxm_is=0&as_maxy_is=1869&num=100&source=gbs_selected_pages&cad=1#v=onepage&q&f=false
The table I'm getting is missing a part though. A center insert underneath? The extra leg is not broken off or anything, it just doesn't provide extra support now that the piece is missing. Anyways, thanks for any help or opinions. I'm just curious about it's history...
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One more...
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Well, I picked this up yesterday and I just love it. The patina in person is just marvelous, very rustic, worn and a rich dark walnut? color. He told me that the previous owner swears there is a maker's mark on it and he saw it before. But we couldn't find it with the table unextended. So, a-maker's-mark-huntin' I go to learn more. Bad thing is that nearly every single piece of hardware has been replaced with new stuff. Even the hinges and wheels. :(
Oh well. I'll hit up ebay.
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I've been looking... Is the extra leg really short on this or did it just look like it in the pics. I was wondering if it had swung out to different positions depending if the table was extended or not.
And btw... on my Pembroke Table the mark is imprinted but not blackend. I had the table for years before I ever saw and had looked a few times. It was only in outside light that I noticed it.
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The leg is the same length as all the others, I thought the same thing you did. It actually appears to screw in right where the date is. I don't think there is a piece missing like he said. The table is a drop leaf but also extends out for more leaves. I think the detached leg is for added support when extra leaves are added. I haven't messed around with the table yet, we brought it in last last and I fell asleep 5 minutes later. Gonna go check it out though, hope I can find that mark.
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I just realized what he meant by "missing piece." Duh, he meant the missing leaves. He meant that the leg was not needed now because the leaves are missing. He didn't know much about antiques so...yeah.
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That leg is still puzzling me a bit.... Why only support one half the table? Seems like it should have swung in to support the leaves then swung back when the leaves weren't in use. Something like this maybe...
http://www.liveauctioneers.com/item/7799119
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Well, I think I can explain this but it may be confusing. When you pull the table apart, all those rows of wood lined up on the underside slide. I just went and looked under, and the screw holes for the leg are now in the middle of the table. So, with extra leaves, the extra leg would rest in the proper place to support the middle of the table. But when closed and without extra leaves, the leg is off center because it doesn't really need to provide extra support. ;)
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Well, now this drives me crazy. I found a hidden stamp on the slider. It's a whole bunch of words and numbers but I can't make them out at all. :( If I can get better pictures can anyone use photoshop to see if they can read it? I'd be ever so grateful! I don't have any photo programs. Any tips on how to take good pics of stamps?
By the way, this little table gets huge! I only pulled it out a little bit and it's at least 6 ft long. Probably gets up to 9ft or so.
In the pic, it appears there is a "10, 18--" It's probably just a patent date?
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hosman, try taking a shot (without flash) on an angle.....may help eliminate the flare. I can give it a go with my program....don't hold your breath though ;)
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Well, after about a billion pics with and without flash here's the best I could get. :( I'm not as interested in the dates now because most start with "186" so it was made in the 1860's-early 70's, I'm betting. Probably multiple patent dates. After wiping it a bit with a damp paper towel, I found a word next to the dates that has "SSNE"? in it. I bet that's the patent holder and then I can find company info. Thanks for any help! Also, maybe I can't find a patent because it's from another country? Did England have patents back then? If so, is there a website I can search?
Now that I look at the pics again, I see "SEP 10 18--" And "DEC 11?"
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I can read some letters but the pics still are not good enough. Top line looks like ...Sep 10,18
Next line is ...ss*ed D?ec ?? I think the angle shot needs to be parallel with the writing and not an angle shot from the right side. Maybe if you wet the surface the writing will stand out more?
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I'll go and try again. :)
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Looks like Dec and a date next to it on the second line! For December....
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I would say it appears to be more like Dec 14. I am wondering if this is a design patent and then the first word before Dec could be assigned?
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I tried to get better pics but it's not happenin'. The problem is that it's a faint, smeared stamp that is worn down, has a finish over it and is on wood that isn't smooth. The pics are actually better than it looks in person cause I have such a good camera that brings out details. Just wish I could see that other word because no dates have "SS" in the month. Oh well. I will just have to keep looking through patents for the proper extension mechanism. I just would like to know if it was on this planet during the civil war or made after. I'm just weird like that. ;)
This pic I just took appears to make the bottom date "DEC 11, 1869" Or maybe "14"
This looks extremely close.
http://www.google.com/patents?id=z5lJAAAAEBAJ&printsec=drawing&zoom=4#v=onepage&q&f=false
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The second number after 1 is a 4. This is a stenciled type 4. It is not a 1. The top of the number 4 goes to the right where the top of the 1 goes to the left. Then there is a space before the slant on the 4 goes down just as in a stenciled 4. It does look like 1869 but it could be 18**. Those numbers are so smudged and this was probably done with a rubber stamp or a single cutout stencil. The bottom of the characters are all cut off as are the tops of the characters on the top line which makes it very hard to figure out. I would also be looking at design patents. If it is in 1869, design patents would be 4 digit such as 3,304.
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Just had to comment- What a NEAT table!! So much history and that's great that it was date-stamped! That makes it so nice so that you'll never have to wonder. Love the look and the patina, lots of personality.
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Thanks tales! I can't wait to find old wheels for it. I feel we got an awesome deal. We traded a paintball gun for it. A paintball gun that has been sitting in a closet for 2 years that nobody would buy from us. I ALWAYS ask people if they will take trades right off the bat. Everyone's happy in bartering. We get rid of something collecting dust and they get something they want, too. The guy was actually pretty awesome, had a great man cave full of man collectibles.
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Could that second line be Issued Dec 14, 1869?
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That's exactly what the "SS" word is wayward! You can clearly see the whole word in one of those "wet" pictures on the first page. Thank you, back to google patents I go. I still can't tell if it's Dec 14 or 11 but I think 14 like you said. The stamp is small so I can't see it well, it's about 1/2" tall.
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Found it...http://www.google.com/patents?id=kUgeAAAAEBAJ&zoom=4&pg=PP2#v=onepage&q&f=false
Top date is Sep 10, 1867 and bottom reissue date is Dec 14, 1869. Quite an old table you have there.
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Dang wayward, how on earth did you find that?? I searched "table" and thought I went through them all. Thank you!
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I go to advanced search and put in "table extension" and to search all words and then down to issue date to search between Dec 1869 and Dec 1869. The first one that popped up was yours.
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Lol now don't I feel smart? I guess I was doin' somethin' wrong. :P
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Someone traded that table for a paintball gun?!!!! Way to go Hosman! I will have to try that. Did you find it in the craigslist barter section or was it offered for sale?
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It was in the antiques Section, for sale. 99 percent of the time I ask, "Are you willing to accept trades?"...I get a yes. Especially for antiques. Many people selling things in the antiques section are not collectors. They either inherited "old junk" or have no idea what an item is worth. So, you offer them something newer and more usefull and they are usually excited to get the "junk" out of their way. Always ask! That's what the pickers always say on the show. They asked. I usually say, "Are you willing to accept trades? Or maybe part cash and part trade? We have new stuff and old stuff, just let me know what your interests are!" This guy just wanted something to hang on the wall, he doesn't ever plan on going paintballing!
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Hosman, here is the other patent for your June 22, 1869 stenciled date ...http://www.google.com/patents?id=hOZFAAAAEBAJ&printsec=description&zoom=4#v=onepage&q&f=false
With all these patents at your disposal, you should be able to see what is missing and what is original, at least at it pertains to the extension slides. It seems like you got a really nice deal in the trade. A c1869-1904 (patents in effect for 35 years) table for a paintball gun.
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Hosman you're kidding?!! I never would have asked. I will have to try that. I know most people are not collectors, hence the good deals, but I never would have thought that people would be so agreeable to a trade. I would think as long as the listing doesn't say "cash only" it's worth a shot, thanks for the heads-up!
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Very nice trade for the gun... So glad you found the info. Nice going Wayward!!
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Thanks guys. I've got one last favor to ask. The last kitchen table I bought is a little metal enamel top one that appears to be a Sellers or a Hoosier circa 1900-1910? I can't get a pic of the whole table right now, I'm rearranging to move the new table and this one is burried in a corner now. Just curious if anyone recognizes this mark. Obviously someone smeared the stamp before it dried. The table itself has an oval metal tag on the front but the name has worn away. It's ok if we can't figure this one out, would just like to know when the top was patented. The table top is blue with grey spots. Will take pics of the whole table soon.