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Antiques! => Antique Questions Forum => Topic started by: olecanalantiques on December 07, 2010, 05:08:50 PM
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Any ideas? New? Old? Probably new but neat..
(http://i1226.photobucket.com/albums/ee418/olecanalstoreinventory/Store%20Inventory/Random/Jesus_Shadow_Box.jpg)
(http://i1226.photobucket.com/albums/ee418/olecanalstoreinventory/Store%20Inventory/Random/Jesus_Shadow_Box_2.jpg)
(http://i1226.photobucket.com/albums/ee418/olecanalstoreinventory/Store%20Inventory/Random/Jesus_Shadow_Box_1.jpg)
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No clue. Religious stuff is deceiving in age to me.
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Same here, it looks and feels old but i have been duped before...
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Is there any branding on that absorbant cotton box?
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Wow.... my laptop crashed and I really want tko search this... what is the significance of the Spoon?..
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Looks like it was for administering last rights... google viaticum. Look for Catholic encyclopedia.
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Is there any branding on that absorbant cotton box?
I will check when i get to the store in the morning..
Looks like it was for administering last rights... google viaticum. Look for Catholic encyclopedia.
Thanks for the search Oceans, kind of creepy!
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Sorry for the brevity... I'll search more too when I can. We have had the perfect storm of PC issues this week. 2 Power sources down (on my puters) and 2 virus's (on hubby's). I am working from my Nook and the fifth desktop that has a rat and a wheel dictating it's speed...
I asked my Dad to look... and the above was what he found. I told him I thought it was cool and he said he thought so too "as long as you don't need it" LOL. His thought was that it may have hung in a hospital since it is glass and would be impractical to carry around. He had never see one and was an alter boy in early 50's and thru high school.
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I think that's a medicine spoon and that this is intended for prayers for healing- hence the absorbent cotton for soaking up leaking body fluids and the spoon for administering medicine and the bottle with the cross would hold holy water from a sacred site, maybe from Lourdes or some other place. Notice that Jesus is suffering too- I think this belonged to a very ill person who was praying for a miracle.
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Sure would like a good shot of that spoon. Looks like a tipped spoon but has a cross added to it. Could you look to see if the spoon has any markings, just because well I like Flatware :D. I would vote for old, at least pre-war, I would say overall it looks early 1900's just a guess on my part. The items inside are looking pretty old. The bottle at close inspection might give you a good clue. That is of course if the items was gathered together at the same time. Not really up on the religous items but sure have some sound logic here from oceans and Tales.
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It was really for administrating last rights. Dad told me (as he was reading) the spoon was to moisten the mouth if need prior to receiving the Eucharist. The bottle and cotton was for anointing. The scene is of Jesus' death when he was removed from the cross and then of course the last supper.
Since my powers of Google have returned, I found this too: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Viaticum
Some that have sold...
http://www.worthpoint.com/worthopedia/antique-catholic-viaticum-oak-shadow-box-last
http://www.worthpoint.com/worthopedia/1897-last-rites-sick-call-outfit-viaticum-shadow (From 1887)
One selling for $650:
http://www.etsy.com/listing/50383852/antique-viaticum-oak-last-rites-wall
Google "viaticum shadow box" for more...
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Curious as to would this be a personnal item or a item a holy person or nun would use again and again? Would be more creepy if it was a personnal item for just one person before they passed.
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Wow, i love this forum!! You guys so rock!
I figured it would be a great conversation piece at the very least. Iron buddy, i will get some shots of the spoon when i get to the store ( i do recall it being plated?). I'll try and get a few more photo's of the smalls in the box and the back of the box..
Oceans, thanks for the extra searching, i appreciate it!
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VERY interesting Oceans! Tell your dad thanks! I would not have thought that!
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Now to find a year!! As said before, Dad kinda thinks it must have hung in a Rectory, hospital or something similar (old soldiers home etc). I think a few that have auctioned said they were hung in a home as a shrine and it definitely could be re purposed as such. I think it would be odd for a lay individual to have it in their home just in case....
Something I haven't found but Dad was reading to me... Some lay individuals could administer Last Rights which was especially true in rural area when there was one Priest in a hundred mile radius. I assume these could hang on their walls as well.
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I went back and actually read the one for sale for $650. From the post, he is the second owner so I guess these date to early 1900's unless it was installed later:
"The mental hospital it came from was built in 1904 along the banks of the Thames River. The population started to dwindle in the 1970's and finally closed it's doors permanently in 1996 due to a push to deinstitutionalize the patients. At that time the state had a huge 3 day auction and sold off as much as they could in that small amount of time and that is how I got this gem and know where it was from. "
EDT: I keep forgetting to mention (in case you are not Catholic otherwise you probably know). The candles are probably for when there is consecrated Eucharist present as it is customary to have a lit candle
More interesting stuff (I'm learning lots about my own church). http://www.traditionalcatholic.net/Tradition/Information/Explanation_Sacraments.html I know Last Rites was discontinued a while back. The preist wouldn't administer to my Gma which made us >:(
How is holy communion given to the sick?
A bell is first rung, then the Sacred Host is borne in procession to the house of the sick person, placed upon a table prepared for it, a prayer is said, and the place and those present are sprinkled with holy water. The priest then gives communion the same as in the church, except wheu the sick person receives it as viaticum; at such times the priest presents the cousecrated Host, saying: "Brother (or, sister), receive as a holy viaticum the body of Our Lord Jesus Christ; may it protect thee from the evil spirit, and lead thee to eternal life. Amen."
When the communion is not given as viaticum, the priest repeats the same formula as is used in the church. The table on which the consecrated Host is placed must be covered with a clean white cloth, a cross, two lighted wax candles, and a vessel with holy water must also be provided. In this country the Blessed Sacrament is, of necessity, carried privately, with all out-door ceremonies omitted.
Why is the holy communion sometimes called Viaticum?
Because it is given to the sick person as food and sustenance for the last dangerous road to eternity.
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Shweet! What a great post Oceans. I guess it's safe to say, i will never find another candle holder for the other side. I can certainly see how one would get lost though, they are removable and just sit in there..
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Heres the back of it guys, let me know what you think, i am doing inventory all this week when i get done at the body shop and want to know if i should put this in the newer category..
(http://i1226.photobucket.com/albums/ee418/olecanalstoreinventory/Store%20Inventory/Random/Jesus_Shadow_Box_4.jpg)
(http://i1226.photobucket.com/albums/ee418/olecanalstoreinventory/Store%20Inventory/Random/Jesus_Shadow_Box_3.jpg)
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Wayward and the others probably know more about this but I think they were recessed in the wall (like a medicine cabinet). Not sure if there was a standard measurement between studs back then and these were built to fit that. The paper if waxed or oiled I would think would help protest against moisture.
I know some have had picture hangers added to hold directly on a wall.
The date is still eluding me. Probably before my Dad was an observant Alter Boy (1950-ish) as he had never seen one until this tho I doubt he was at very many Last Rite rituals as a child or Alter Boy.
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Thanks for getting so involved in this piece Oceans, it's greatly appreciated!
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Check out this site written by a priest and collector tho some is not so good news (like price as low as $20). Yours has some of the tools of the trade so I think it would go for more.
http://reviews.ebay.com/quot-Sick-Call-quot-or-quot-Last-Rites-quot-Kits-an-Ebay-Introduction_W0QQugidZ10000000003536710
Also check out his home page and http://mysite.verizon.net/resnum5m/id4.html for addl info. He says made in early 1900's.
EDT: Oh my... Go to eBay and put in "sick call box". Remember, I'm just the messenger....
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SCREAMS AT OCEANS!!
Just kidding :P
I am pretty amazed at all the different variations. I guess i could have asked dad, he said we have had a few of these and they all sold from $60 to $175 depending on the style and what variation they were...
They look pretty dam common to me, good thing we don't have much in it!
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The one thing about eBay is... Shipping... and Fr. eBay (I say that with all respect) said a couple of times that these were extremely fragile and to make sure you pay for extra padding and insurance. That would run up the price too.
Your Dad probably isn't too far off...
edited to change is to isn't before Ole's Dad comes after me...
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16" on center has been the standard for studs for a long time. The thing to remember is the width of a stud has varied quite a bit so the space between the studs also varied. Finished, planed studs now are 1 1/2" x 3 1/2" but rough cut studs years ago were a full 2"x 4", hence the term 2x4.