Antique-shop.com
Antiques! => Antique Questions Forum => Topic started by: talesofthesevenseas on February 15, 2011, 05:56:27 PM
-
Perhaps I have been doing too much genealogy, looking at too many old photographs and pondering my family's past. But I was in an antique store at lunch today and was struck by the resemblance of this very old 1840's chinahead doll to the photograph of my great-great-great-grandmother, Mary Bolles Bradbury, which was taken in about 1849 to 1850. Have I lost my mind or what? I thought of her instantly when I saw this doll. Granted, a lot of the look is in the hairstyle, everyone was doing their hair like Jenny Lind (the singer). The dolls cheeks are a little fuller, which is typical of dolls of the period but...
(http://i181.photobucket.com/albums/x124/talesofthesevenseas/DollWithMaryBolles.jpg)
-
I see it.... Definitely same hair. ;D
-
OK good, perhaps I haven't lost it completely then, LOL.
Well, I called the shop and had them put her on 24 hour hold so that I can go back in to take a look at her up close. She has condition issues in the dress and an issue on the back of the neck, but I'm not sure how bad it is. Hopefully it's a small repair that I could use to negotiate the price a bit. They are asking $298. Definitely not in the budget, but I would love to have a chinahead that is this early. They have layaway and Hubby owes me one, LOL! I'll see how I feel after sleeping on it overnight and then going back to look at the condition issues tomorrow. Hard to walk away from one that looks like an ancestor!
-
Tales, your great-great-great-grandmother was a doll model? How fabulous!
-
Awww... and here I thought you guys were going to tell me I was a nut case!
-
Just emailed my mother the pics above. She agrees, it looks like Mary to her too. Might have to see if I can negotiate the price a bit. Talk about making an emotional antique purchase, huh?
-
Yeah but those emotional purchases are the ones you really treasure...
-
That is true Osh!
I'll let you guys know how it goes. I'll take my loupe.
-
I spent 45 minutes going over the doll with the loupe. I've posted details and new pics of the condition issues on the Ebay doll forum for anyone that would like to give it a lurk. Looks like some of the paint was touched up. I've extended the hold on it for another 24 hours while I research, ask for feedback and make a decision. I'd appreciate any feedback you guys can offer:
http://forums.ebay.com/db1/topic/Dolls/1840s-China-Head/520262554 (http://forums.ebay.com/db1/topic/Dolls/1840s-China-Head/520262554)
-
OMG tales, side by side with your ggg-grandmother the resemblance is even more pronounced. If I came across a treasure like that and had the means to make her mine I wouldn't hesitate, regardless of the issues........but you know me, all my favorite things are 'issues' :D
-
It is tempting just to dive in and do it. The similarities are really quite striking to my great-grandmother and I've never seen a doll that made me think of a person like this. I do feel like I would probably regret not buying her and it is highly unlikely I could find the exact same doll again, as I can't find one like her online. With the shop's layaway plan, I can do it in a couple of payments without accruing any interest on my credit card, or straining the family budget. But with anything that has had an older "restoration" like this, and has been devalued by it, I really want to proceed cautiously, to know exactly what I am buying and to feel like I'm making an informed purchase, even though it is obviously a highly emotional one.
At least her age does not seem to be in question. I had a long-time collector email me privately and dated her to 1850. Definitely she is the real deal. The hairstyle is referred to as "covered wagon" in doll collector's circles.
-
Ok, I am going to weigh in and I know nothing about dolls. If you walk away, this is going to haunt you for years and I mean years. If you buy her, are you able to overlook all her shortcomings and mainly fixate on how much she resembles your ancestor? If she constantly reminds you of your gr-gr-gr grandmother, I think this is a no brainer to buy it. Another doll in perfect condition from the same maker will probably not have an identical face and that is what draws you to this doll. $253 I would do it in a second if it was me. it is not me, so your finances have to help you decide. With layaway the deal is even better and you already like dolls and this one you would absolutely love. How is you hubby weighing in on this? I would have told my wife to buy it. There is my non-doll collector opinion for what it is worth. As my wife says, I have many opinions and all of them are free. Not many are valued though.
-
I agree. You'll regret not buying her. She may not be perfect but she is special to you and that's what counts. She compliments the photo and you can pass them down together. I say go for it and enjoy her!
-
According to one contributor on the other forum, the large ones like her in mint condition would be about $700, so $253 isn't bad and realistically I would not be able to consider her if she was a $700 doll. So there are times when some condition issues are a good thing.
Yes, she would definitely be passed on with a photo of Mary. I don't have the original, but I have a good scan.
-
Wayward, I missed your response when I replied to Hosman. Yep, you're spot-on that it would haunt me for years if I didn't do it. With hand-painted dolls, every face is a little different and they have distinct personalities, just like people. Finding another that reminds me so much of my ancestor is very, very unlikely. I'm feeling OK about the condition issues and about how other people who know more than I do about dolls responded to them. Hubby has been 100% supportive. He's always been very good about supporting this antique addiction of mine, even though he doesn't always relate to it, he knows how much I enjoy these things and that is what matters to him. He's a good keeper. :-) I'm feeling good about the whole thing and planning to do the layaway, just so that it makes it that much easier. $150 now and the balance next month.
-
Looks like Miss Mary is going to come home ;)
-
Tales - Agree with Wayward. It would haunt you. Glad you decided to bring her home. ;D
-
Okay, I am going to step up to the plate and say what noone else will say....Tales you are losing it! In fact, all of us on here are! LOL
I agree with Wayward with the statement that it will haunt you if you don't get it!
What a resemblance!!!!!! Seems fated! Awaiting your next posting!!!!!!!
-
It's official, the Mary Bolles Bradbury doll is mine and will be coming home pending payoff in a couple of weeks. ;D Thanks once again for the moral support while I did my homework.
One interesting thing, so far as the collectors on the forum above knew, Kestner and Kister were the only two firms that they knew of who made these dolls with the "covered wagon" hairstyle in the 1850's. "Mary" doesn't look like she comes from the molds I'm seeing of any of the dolls online. She does however, look a lot like other Kestner dolls and my guess is that she is a Kestner, but I won't be able to confirm that until I find another like her. Like most of these early china heads, she has no markings.
-
WooHoo! I think you will love her forever, Tales!
-
Tales, you've likely come across this one.......she's a 30" though, but just going by your pics she sure looks related ;)
http://www.flickr.com/photos/lethasladies/2695402285/
-
I still vote for the one on the left, Tales choice.
-
I am sure you are right Wayward, I will love her forever. I was looking at her today when they were wrapping her up and putting her aside and I can't exactly put my finger on what it is about just this one doll that gives her such a similarity to my ancestor, because I don't see it in other very similar dolls. There's just something about this one and despite trying to tell myself that I'm just imprinting my own interests onto the doll, which is true in part of course, but in three visits to see her, I still see the resemblance quite strongly. Its not as if I went back and felt differently after sleeping on it or sobering up, LOL! I am sure I will treasure her the rest of my life and will find a trustworthy descendant of Mary Bradbury's to pass her on to someday. :)
Yes Sapphire that one is VERY close. There are a couple of very similar Kestners and about the only difference is the length of the hair. The facial features look just about identical. Isn't it interesting how they each have their own look though? That is one of the really cool things about old dolls is how unique they are.
-
What a find of a lifetime. That is one of the joys about handmade/hand painted - each one different!
Congratulations!
-
I am sure I will treasure her the rest of my life and will find a trustworthy descendant of Mary Bradbury's to pass her on to someday. :)
I hope you get a granddaughter someday that fits the bill!!
-
If not I have lots of nieces and cousins with daughters. One of them could get her too!
-
I totally have no willpower... I'm going to go get her tomorrow.
-
I totally have no willpower... I'm going to go get her tomorrow.
Really wish I hadn't been taking a sip of pop when I read this >:(
I'm thinking tonight we should roast a 'marshmallow' :D
-
LOLOLOL - Once she is yours it's tough to think of her sitting in a backroom somewhere... cold.... alone... wondering if she'll ever be loved again...
Or perhaps I've watched Toy Story one too many times ;D
-
Yup, definitely a marshmallow. The guy at the antique store who took her out of the case for me said "Oh, and she's been waiting so long to go home with somebody!" so I guess I'm not the only marshmallow!
-
Miss Mary is home and enjoying the Eastlake rocker until I have a place set up for her. :)
(http://i181.photobucket.com/albums/x124/talesofthesevenseas/MaryDoll8.jpg)
-
Now doesn't she look comfortable! She's beautiful and what a great history she must have!
-
Tales.........you absolutely HAVE to !!!!!
http://sfbay.craigslist.org/pen/atq/2224630346.html
:D
-
Cute, but not a good idea in earthquake country. Those would pitch the dolls right onto their china heads. I'm thinking about bidding on this low-to-the-ground 1920's stroller though. I could have "the girls" in that with a blanket padding them.
(http://i.ebayimg.com/00/$(KGrHqF,!h0E1KsNd72DBN(WgFoSIQ~~_3.JPG)
-
Ohhhhh, too sweet!!! ;)
Thanking my lucky stars I don't have earthquakes to deal with.
-
Someone on the doll forum suggested that she is a Kister rather than a Kestner. Here is this person's doll from the same 1850 era. She says the double painted eyebrow is normal for these dolls and that mine probably had a shoulder repair. This one does look a lot like mine, but again, not exactly. The painting style is the same though.
(http://i149.photobucket.com/albums/s48/plunderforpatra/c2e704cd.jpg)
-
Her eyebrows are definitely much closer to yours (Ms Mary's that is) !
-
The details of the face paint are very similar too. there is the double brow with a smaller brow painted in a layer under the larger one, and the way the lids are painted in red hooking in at the corners looks identical. The owner of the doll shown above said she was pretty sure that mine was a Kister.
-
I thought you antiquers might find this interesting since you have gotten to know my ancestor Mary Bolles Bradbury a bit through this doll. I'm planning a trip to Guilford NY, the town where Mary Bolles Bradbury lived as an adult, in June. Oxford, which is the town where she grew up, is right down the road. I had been searching for Mary's grave site for quite some time without any luck. Because of the trip to Guilford, I thought I would check to see if perhaps Mary's parents (my 4x great-grandparents) might be buried in Oxford. They were, and I found them immediately... and guess who else was there! I ran a search for other Bolles relations and there she was, buried under her maiden name "Bolles", which is why I wasn't able to find her on previous searches. I had been looking for the name she used in her last marriage, which was Day.
So whether you are hunting down info, your latest antique aquisition or searching for your roots, run a few extra searches, and follow those hunches and gut feelings, you never know what you might find!
-
Excellent! Congrats... Always feels good to solve a genealogy "problem"!
-
Great job Talesof!
-
I thought it would be interesting to watch this auction for a doll that looks to be of the same mold/manufacture as our "Miss Mary". This one as a crack on her shoulderplate so probably we're looking at about the same value give or take.
http://cgi.ebay.com/ANTIQUE-COVERED-WAGON-CHINA-HEAD-DOLL-18-TALL-/300542281537?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item45f9b74741 (http://cgi.ebay.com/ANTIQUE-COVERED-WAGON-CHINA-HEAD-DOLL-18-TALL-/300542281537?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item45f9b74741)
Here is the doll up for auction:
(http://i.ebayimg.com/00/$(KGrHqMOKjcE1+Hy0J)yBNk0EK!DTQ~~_3.JPG)
-
Nice doll but I still like yours because it resembles your ancestor more IMO.
-
I agree! In fact my mother and I went to a doll show this weekend looking for antique parts for a couple of old family dolls and we both agreed after looking at hundreds of them that there is just something special about that particular doll's look. I am VERY glad that I bought her and wouldn't ever part with her. That's what I love about the old, hand-painted dolls. Every one has her own unique personality and there is a much more human touch to them than with the modern plastic ones that are all exactly alike. But just for comparison, since I think this auction doll came from my doll's mold it will be interesting to watch what she sells for.