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Antiques! => Antique Questions Forum => Topic started by: WTMammoth on April 08, 2011, 09:15:23 PM
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Hello all,
I have come across this wine decanter and set of 4 matching goblets. I know little about it and was looking for some help. Check out the picture, I have more pictures as well as detailed ones as well.
Thanks
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I have never seen one like that !! Are there any markings on the metal portion, or anywhere for that matter ?? Could we get closeups ?? Looks Victorian !!
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Yes I will get some more closeups and detailed pictures of the complete set. We were still going through boxes and I was only able to take some quick pictures at the time. It has been packed away in an attic since my great grandfather passed away. He recieved it from a wealthy collector who was moving. My great grandfather did a lot of work for the family and chose the set as a gift from them. The story goes that it once belonged to Napoleon. I can't verify that but it may give some insight into the timeline of it. The set has been a family story for some time, this was the first time I've ever seen it. I will get more pictures posted, again thanks for any help!
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Certainly an interesting piece. Looks very high Victorian, but the one thing that bothers me is the stopper. I would have thought that it would either have had a hinged lid, or at least the metal of the stopper would have followed the curve of the glass. Not sure what that suggests ??? Just thinking out aloud
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That stopper would be correct for wine, would it not ???
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That stopper would be correct for wine, would it not ???
Yes, it would, but it is the way the metal on the stopper doesn't follow the form of the metal on the neck that seems odd. A lot of work must have gone into the making and a bit more thought would have tidied that up.
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Beautiful Piece and to have 4 matching pieces to the set is wonderful. Styling looks to be along the lines of this one. http://www.claretjugs.com/screen/1012.html But yours looks to be made in possibly pewter??
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Mmmm,,, I see what you mean !! Perhaps the cork was a later addition ?? It does seem to be out of place with the style of the claret jug !!
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My original thought was regarding the cork as well. Actually it was a question. Would it be in such good condition after X amount of years and would it be stained (which it may be since we can't see it).
What happens to cork after 50+ years? ???
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What happens to cork after 50+ years? ???
It goes to cork heaven ;D
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What happens to cork after 50+ years?
It sometimes gets a "corkscrew" treatment.
When Lorenzo said he had some special bottles that no one was brave enough to open, I was mystified. I was introduced to Attorney Charles Lewis, who brought the bottles to the event; they were among several found under a set of stairs in the house of his wife Bonnie's late aunt, on Francisco Street in San Francisco's Marina District. The wine had been bottled by Bonnie's grandfather, John Moscone, in 1909. He was a founder of the Sunset Scavenger Company. The wine was 100 years old and most likely had turned to vinegar, but then there was the rarest possibility it had not.
Finally a brave soul was cajoled into opening the bottles, which both showed significant sediment deposits. The first we tasted directly from the bottle; the second we filtered. The wine was outstanding. It had a clear golden to caramel color, had the aroma of a fine sherry and the taste and body of Madeira. http://diningaround.com/profiles/blogs/lunch-with-lorenzo (http://diningaround.com/profiles/blogs/lunch-with-lorenzo)
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Funny guys!! A cork doesn't last a year in this house. What happens after the trash has been picked up, I can't say ;D
I thought that you were supposed to store wine on it's side so the cork doesn't dry out and allow air in the bottle. Wouldn't this cork show signs of shrinkage?
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I thought that you were supposed to store wine on it's side so the cork doesn't dry out and allow air in the bottle. Wouldn't this cork show signs of shrinkage?
It looks more like it's been on steroids! ;D
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Here's my take on the stopper...it could be for a separate wine bottle. To cap it after it is opened but when you don't finish the whole bottle (rare). Although it looks like it fits this neck and compliments the set's finish, it may have been one that was added over the years because it fit. I think it is odd also that the original stopper would sit that high on that fancy pouring neck/lip. I would have expected the original stopper to follow the contour of the opening. The cherub on the stopper is similar to the cherubs on the metal work but not identical. That is why I think it was added later.
Oceans asked "What happens to cork after 50+ years?" Nothing, it just is cork. Cork has been used on fishing rod handles for well over 100 years and it is still cork. It might be worn and dirty but cleaned up it is good as new. It does not rot, crumble, or disintegrate. It might shrink a tad which is why wine should be stored so the cork stays wet and seals the neck as it was meant to.
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Cork has been used on fishing rod handles for well over 100 years and it is still cork. It might be worn and dirty but cleaned up it is good as new. It does not rot, crumble, or disintegrate. It might shrink a tad which is why wine should be stored so the cork stays wet and seals the neck as it was meant to.
Ahhh... Good point Wayward.
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I think we're in agreement re the stopper .. something aint quite right.
Slightly going off topic ... I have always been a hoarder and for years saved all the 'cork' corks after the wine and bottle were recycled, but not necessarily the same way ;D
I amassed quite a number of them and used to use them for a variety of applications. With heavy planters in the garden, if there was no crock available then a few inches of corks would do the trick ... I made a pair of hollow stereo stands, quite tall beasts, but the fact that they were hollow seemed to impact on the sound, so I filled them with cork! Sound was great. Going back to the planters, we've changed the compost over the years, but the cork still lives on! So, Kids. there really is no cork heaven, sorry.
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You are right Mario !! But perhaps the reason that it is not quite right is because it is part of a set !! Maybe the cork was designed for the bottle and not the jug. Could have been a tray or other pieces as well. You know the Victorians went overboard on things !!
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From what I can tell the ornate stopper top, face of, looks much like the one on the base.
Looks much like ones from France.....
However, when I look closer at the design on the base of the two pics....they appear slightly different!
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Finally had a chance to take some more detailed pictures. I have ones from every angle in high resolution, I'll post what I can on here. The metal looks to be silver. There is a close up of the marking on the bottom of the decanter.
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The Hallmark appears to Be A K . C ?? This could be Argentum Silver Co. out of New York but that would make this a Mid Century piece. It appears Silverplate on the bottom, but the oranate Black would be lots of Tarnish, that would suggest something very much older.
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Me thinks everything is original, including the cork stopper.
And me thinks the cork stopper was intentionally made that way so as to prevent the metal portion of the stopper from ever coming in contact with the glass ..... thus averting any chance of broken glass, .... due to rough treatment or expansion.
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I am in LOVE with this set, it's amazing! I see, for the mark, "AK&C" Last two letters might be "LS"?
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I wonder if the last 2 are LD for "Limited." I saw a lot of companies abbreviate it that way through my search. I looked through the English/American silver and silverplate marks and didn't find this one. :-\
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The last part of the marking is triple stamped and quite unclear. I think whatever letter is after the "L" (if it is an L) is above the L and not in line with it. I think it is part of the L abbreviation and not a separate letter than means something.
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I have seen the L with number (6 and *) used with Swedish items dating in the 1930's as a date stamp and have also seen it on English items.
Agree it is A K & C from my perspective as well. But have to determine the metal....
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http://www.heirloomsantiques.com.au/wmf-a-17.html for Albert Kohler u Cie (AK & Cie), an Austrian metalwork company in 1900. His work greatly resembles this decanter metalwork.
I think the mark is "AK & Cie". I believe what we are looking at is A. K. & C. and then IE raised up with a line under it so the I appears to be an L.
See the AK&C IE stamp on this page http://www.titusomega.com/Object%20Profile%20and%20Photos/METALWARE/WMF%20twin%20dish%20m%2080.htm
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Good Job Wayward, Looks like a match to me. You Rock :D
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Great Job!
OH MY GOODNESS!!! (Yes I am Yelling!!!!! Happily.....) IRONLORD....YOU ARE BACK!!!!!!!!!!!! Yip Yip Hooray....Yip Yip Hooray! Oh Frabjous Day!
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Its too bad we are not all located close to ironlord or we could all toast his return to the forum with a pint at a local watering hole. ;D
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Here here!! :D
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History http://www.senses-artnouveau.com/biography.php?artist=AKC (http://www.senses-artnouveau.com/biography.php?artist=AKC)
(http://instappraisal.com/files/imagecache/fieldimage/appraisal_images/art%20nouveau%20016.jpg)
http://instappraisal.com/content/pair-art-nouveau-candlestickspreworld-war-i (http://instappraisal.com/content/pair-art-nouveau-candlestickspreworld-war-i)
http://www.christies.com/LotFinder/lot_details.aspx?intObjectID=5246892 (http://www.christies.com/LotFinder/lot_details.aspx?intObjectID=5246892)
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Its too bad we are not all located close to ironlord or we could all toast his return to the forum with a pint at a local watering hole. ;D
I am all for that !!!