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Antiques! => Antique Questions Forum => Topic started by: talesofthesevenseas on April 21, 2011, 12:10:33 PM
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I just picked up a neat old cast iron scale. The only markings on it are a number 4 on the center column, no mfg. info and no patent date or other marks. This is a counter scale, meant to sit on the countertop of a store. It's a roverbal scale and this one can weigh from zero to 15 pounds by moving the pendulum weight along the front of the scale and by adding the 1 oz to 2 lb weights in various combinations on the platform. The pan and weight bar on the front are brass.
The seller guesstimated it to be 1880's which seems about right to me, but it would be nice if it could be positively identified, so far I haven't found a match for it online, it is tough without knowing the manufacturer. Below are the seller's pics. I'll take some additional ones tonight after polishing the pan and removing the rust from the weights. It looks great sitting on the coffee bin, like they belong together. Lately I've been having fun trying recipes from antique cookbooks and many of the old ones are given in weights, rather than modern measurements. So I will be putting this one to good use. It was a tiny bit light on the pan side, which I resolved by adding three dimes to it, which put it back into perfect balance when empty.
Here is the scale:
(http://i.ebayimg.com/00/$(KGrHqUOKn!E2ekm!+IRBNpQRM6lCQ~~0_3.JPG)
(http://img.auctiva.com/imgdata/4/9/0/7/3/4/webimg/465346229_o.jpg)
(http://img.auctiva.com/imgdata/4/9/0/7/3/4/webimg/465346229_o.jpg)
(http://img.auctiva.com/imgdata/4/9/0/7/3/4/webimg/465346229_o.jpg)
(http://img.auctiva.com/imgdata/4/9/0/7/3/4/webimg/465346323_o.jpg)
(http://img.auctiva.com/imgdata/4/9/0/7/3/4/webimg/465346338_o.jpg)
Here are the weights that came with it:
(http://img.auctiva.com/imgdata/4/9/0/7/3/4/webimg/457992849_o.jpg)
(http://img.auctiva.com/imgdata/4/9/0/7/3/4/webimg/457992878_o.jpg)
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I think the time frame of 1880s-1900 is a good one. I have seen scales like this with more original paint and striping on them and I think they also had a decal. I am more familiar with postal scales of this type. I had one in my office before I retired that had a metal plate attached by 2 screws or rivets. Are there any small holes anywhere on the base sides of this scale, Tales? Yours could be an old hardware or general store scale with that removable pan. I would lean toward hardware store (or maybe a meat market) where the pan would weigh nails or bolts (or meat). That is a lot of extra weights for a counterbalance on a general store counter when the pan is not real large.
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A hardware scale makes sense. 15 lbs is a lot of weight for such a small scale, so I think you are probably right it would have to be something like nails. 15 lbs of flour, coffee or other dry goods would be larger than the pan. Most of the scale I saw online similar to this one only went up to 6 lbs.
I didn't see any holes as if it had a plate attached at one time, but I will look for that when I get home tonight.
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I think hardware/general store as well !! Back when nails came in barrels !! Hasn`t been too long since we had one like that !! Masons Hardware may still weigh nails !! Have to check that !!
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I can easily remember buying nails by weight as late as the 1960's. The scales were hanging ones like we use for produce now, but you scooped the nails out of metal bins, some of which were down at kid-level and an endless source of fascination as I recall! I also remember buying candy by weight in the 1960's. I remember pocket change used to get us quite a mountain of candy! They used a platform scale as I recall for the candy, similar to a butcher's scale.
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Remember those well Talesof! Loved going to the hardware store and playing with the revolving nail bins as a kid - was selling that way as late as 1969 in my hometown.
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I have a cast iron Force (company) scale, I love them. Yours is very cool. I think the time frame is right, that's when most of them were made. Wonder if we can identify it just by the number "4."
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Oh, the 4 is just the weight (4 kilograms), I believe.
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I think the #4 will turn out to be a model number. The scale measures in pounds and ounces and I don't think people were too concerned with metric units of measure in the US at that time. The scale itself weighs more than 4 Kg (2.2 lbs), I'll have to check its exact weight, and it measures up to 15lbs, more if you add weights on the platform.
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I am with Tales on '4' being a model number or just the number that denotes the size of the scale. I am sure they had smaller scales like a model 1 or size 1 and larger ones also. Maybe an old Sears catalog copy (repro) would have different size scales in it for comparison.
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I beg to differ on this one. I may be wrong though. Force scales (the most common scales from this period) were French, and measured in kilos. The weights were often lost (imagine trying to keep all those little things with the scale for over 100 years) and could be replacements. Mine only has 3 weights, I think.
http://cgi.ebay.com/19thC-Antique-Victorian-French-FORCE-15-Kilo-SCALES-/220773145000?pt=UK_Collectable_ToolsHasdware_RL&hash=item33671ad9a8
http://cgi.ebay.com/ANTIQUE-FORCE-CAST-IRON-500-GR-FRENCH-SCALE-WEIGHTS-/390307979809?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item5ae02b2221
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This type of scale was referred to as a Grocer's Even Balance Trip Scale and the 4 denoted this as a No. 4. The brass pan was more $ than a tin pan. It does not look like a Howe's or a Fairbanks but there are some Fairbanks on this site http://www.fairbanks.com/literature/Antique_Scales.pdf Your scale, Tales, resembles example 44. I am not sure if there should be a porcelain/brass/steel plate on the right side over that cast iron pan that is there now. That lip around the edge leads me to think there should be a plate sitting on top. Do the two sides balance out as is? If the brass pan side drops down then there would have been a plate on top of the cast iron plate on the right side. I think the front beam measures in ounces (16) and is graduated in 1/4 ounce units? I do not think the largest weights are for this scale. They appear to be of a different manufacturer. I think the ones numbered 1,2,4 and 8 are one set and would let this scale weigh up to 16 lbs. That makes sense with the listings for this type of scale in my 1918 hardware catalog.
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#44 (which is Fairbanks model #2) does look a whole lot like my scale? I double checked a few things-
The bar that the pendulum weight is on is marked "lb" at the end so it definitely USA measures, but one BIG correction. A bit of experimenation weighing things tonight quickly taught me that the 0-15 bar on the front, which ends in lb, are ounces, and they total up to one pound. Sorry for the misinformation above. So looks like it's a grocers scale... I think!
There are no holes like it ever had a mounting plate. Probably a long-gone sticker.
With the pendulum weight at the far left of the bar at zero, the scale almost balances perfectly. It is a tiny bit light on the pan side. I put three dimes under the pan and now it balances out perfectly. It probably needs to be calibrated.
The pan and weights cleaned up really nice:
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Bet it was for a candy! Yum!
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Oh !! Its tiny !! Looking at the pics I thought a larger model !! I will go with KC on this,, Would be right at home on a candy counter !!
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Yes, the unit itself measures 10-1/2" in length by 4" in width, not counting the pan. Nice compact size for my kitchen.
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NiceTales love it !!! I think this is it.
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That does look very much like my scale, the only differences are in the numbering on the bar in front, since now I know mine is ounces and it measures by the ounce up to a pound the shape of the pendulum weight and the scrollwork, although that could be a sticker. But the general shape looks like it, it could be mine is the #4 size they made. Definitely seems like it could be for baking, that's what I got it for.
Here is a better look at that bar and there are some additional photos on the Ebay listing: http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&_trksid=p4340.l2557&rt=nc&nma=true&item=310311449786&si=tXs%252B9%252BB7EGQm6YvtH6rrHAytOE8%253D&viewitem= (http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&_trksid=p4340.l2557&rt=nc&nma=true&item=310311449786&si=tXs%252B9%252BB7EGQm6YvtH6rrHAytOE8%253D&viewitem=)
(http://img.auctiva.com/imgdata/4/9/0/7/3/4/webimg/465346252_o.jpg)
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I like it especially because it has the brass pan and not a tin pan. Old brass has such a nice patina to it. It looks great on your coffee bin with that mill next to it.
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Thanks, the mill was an accidental freebie. I was buying it for someone else, the seller said it was functional, but when I got it, it couldn't actually grind coffee beans. It also had the center post replaced with a modern machined piece and someone used a zinc-coated bolt. Not good for food. So the seller just told me to keep it as a decoration. So it's one of the few non-functioning antiques. I'm looking for a coffee grinder for my young cousin, who likes to grind the coffee beans in the morning for his parents. I thought he would have fun with an antique grinder, so I'm taking him one when we go to visit in June. Now I'm being careful to ask if the sellers have actually put beans in and ground them, not just turned the handle.
I like the brass pan on the scale too. I was specifically looking for one with a brass pan because I like that look. This scale was just the right size and had the pan I wanted, plus was still functional. Eventually I'll find a place to get it calibrated and then I can take the three dimes out from under the pan!
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When I read this thread last week I thought I must post a pic of ours ... and it's taken me this long to take the photos!
I bought these Avery scales back in the early 90s and I've no idea how old they were then.....They're certainly not antique, and probably might just qualify as 'Vintage' ... and I feel they may be 1950s - '60s. They are what we would call 'Sweetshop scales' or candy scales to you. There is a pattern number, so I could probably do some research and find out exactly when they were made. They are incredibly accurate ... they have a small spirit level beneath the pan and all four feet are adjustable.
The dresser in the background is also not antique, and again probably from the 50s - 60s. When I ripped out the old fitted kitchen my wife started to panic, but we very easily picked up a couple of lovely storage units and the dresser, and it looks so much better now, and they are moveable!
The dresser was made by Wood Brothers, is solid oak, and all the joints including drawers are dovetailed. Is 7' long and 6' tall. I was mentioning a while back that 'brown furniture' is just out of fashion nowadays, over here, and that works in our favour. Including the hire of a van I think the total outlay (for the dresser) was c. $300. Again, Wood Bros are still going and I suppose that I could contact them and ask them when it was made.
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Oooooh! Love your kitchen hutch! It looks great with all the packaging and what-nots! I like the scale! Very nice!
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Thanks, Tales ... It certainly looks more in keeping with the kitchen than the awful 1970s, chipboard fitted units .. Seems strange to hear it being called a 'hutch' :D ... We only seem to use that term for a rabbit's house ...
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Here we commonly call a cupboard for keeping your best china a "china hutch" and we also call a rabbit cage a "rabbit hutch". A "kitchen hutch" could be any kind of kitchen cupboard that had doors with glass, wire or open shelves that allow you to see inside. The similarities to animal cages are probably how the term came about. We would not usually call an enclosed cupboard that you can't see inside of a hutch. "Hutch" almost always refers to one that allows you to see what it contains. It's interesting to see how languages evolve differently, not only across the pond, but even regionally here in the US! Thanks for sharing that!
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And thanks for sharing that ... :)
I've just looked it up in my 1867 Ogilvie Dictionary (UK English not American English) to see if the meaning was similar back then, and it defines a hutch as a corn box, something for keeping rabbits in, the wooden crate for drawing up coal from a mine, as well as that quantity of coal! I just love language :D
Just Googled Wood Bros Dresser and found one identical to mine ..on Ebay, but they've got a starting price of £450! (c $700!) Good luck to them!
http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/OLD-CHARM-WOOD-BROS-LANCASTER-DRESSER-/220774749168?pt=UK_Home_Garden_LivingRoomFurniture_EH
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Here is a wonderful online etymology dictionary, which gives the origins and early usage of words and phrases.
http://etymonline.com/ (http://etymonline.com/)
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I just noticed the other day that the number bar on the front of this scale is brass. Cleaned it up this morning and it is looking good. You can also see that what I thought was "15" at the end of the scale was actually "1lb" but it was so blackened with tarnish that I misread it.
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Wow - That looks good - Not that it looked bad before but it's amazing what highlighting a single detail can do.