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Antiques! => Antique Questions Forum => Topic started by: talesofthesevenseas on May 24, 2011, 12:38:43 PM
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I just got an email from a cousin, that several pieces of antique family furniture that belonged to my great-great-grandparents are being sold and was I interested in any of it? You can guess what my answer to that was!
I have said that I would like to buy the china hutch pictured below. It was in my great-great-grandparents home in Oak Park IL and family lore is that it came from Germany in the 1850's. It is the original hutch that all my blue and white china would have been kept in. (I think it looks a little later than 1850's, but it is hard to tell from this one photo.) This is all the info I have at this time, but it looks like a beauty in incredible condition and I'm willing to shell out the bucks to keep it in the family. I have no idea what it is going to cost me, and shipping is going to be horrendous, I can't afford it whatever it is, but I'll sell a bunch of stock and go for it. Whatever it takes to keep it in the family. I thought you all would like to follow along on my latest plunge. I am totally excited, she said she didn't think any of her own children would want it. Fingers crossed, holding my breath!
I could use some advice on shipping. When I looked into it last, shipping via Greyhound bus and picking it up at a hub site was a good way to go. I have a truck and can do that.
If you can tell anything from this photo about what a reasonable price range for a hutch like this would be, that might be helpful just in case the cousins who have it have expectations that are beyond fair market value.
I sure wish I could see those carvings on the upper columns- Ladies? Gargoyles? Or just fancy carved frills?
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Hey, I used to live in Oak park... Actually, that is where I lived when I registered antique-shop.com in 1996. (interesting story... antiqueshop.com (no hyphen) was registered just weeks before by a woman in chicago.. for a while we had links to each others sites on our own sites, but I digress)
Here is the question.. do you have any old pictures with the furniture in it!?? That is so fun when you can see the furniture being used, but a bunch of years ago, in a different time.. It makes ownership that much more pleasureable for some reason.
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I do not know much about furniture but the base style looks more recent to me. I would have thought that something from the 1850s would have feet or more style to the base. Tales, is this really 1850s?
I would buy it also to keep it in the family. As to price, I have no clue but I would hope your relatives do not hold you up.
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I would bet its later than that !! Need to see that hardware !! Style does not look 1850`s at all !!
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Yes, it looks later to me also. I'm thinking more late 1800's. It's easy for things to be improperly dated in a family, so I won't be surprised if that is the case with this hutch. At this point this is all the info and photos I have.
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I am thinking even later than that !! Can they take more pics for you !! Maybe drawer construction and hardware?? It looks like drawers on the bottom !!
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I will ask for more photos, first I'm asking for the price. This is the house it came from in Oak Park IL.
(http://homepages.rootsweb.ancestry.com/~syafam/Richardson/308SGrove1889txtsm.jpg)
(http://homepages.rootsweb.ancestry.com/~syafam/Richardson/308SGrovetxtsm.jpg)
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These ornamental pieces really have me curious. The basic form of the hutch looks almost modern, but then there are these on the top. Looks like a female form maybe?
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Those handles near the bottom look like those "fruit" handles that were popular from around 1860-1880's. It's beautiful!
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Forget the hutch.... I WANT THE HOUSE!!!! hehehehe Bet there are a lot more neighbors these days ;D
It is very nice and if you can swing it, you'll never be sorry with that history. For sure you know it's not 1960's Ethan Allan ;) Maybe they can send you some really good pics of the sides? Your going to want lots of pics anyway (prior to shipping) so you can verify you receive it in the same condition.
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nice house!!
http://www.bing.com/maps/default.aspx?encType=1&where1=308+S+Grove+Ave%2c+Oak+Park%2c+IL+60302-3502&cp=41.883146~-87.795673&FORM=MIRE1
Unfortunately, I don't think its there any more.. :(
Sorry I'm not helpful with the furniture.. :)
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Well, this was a short-lived pipe dream. The cousin wants bids beginning at $7,250. I don't know if he is basing this on insurance value, retail value or if he has even had an appraisal, but I'm not seeing that kind of value or age in the photo, and will have to pass on it, even for the sake of keeping it in the family. I declined but said that I would like to talk if the sale does not pan out the way he hopes.
Dontbe, yes that is what I recall, that the house is no longer there. Unfortunate isn't it? It was a beauty.
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Been watching your thread and check it out!!!
http://maps.google.com/maps?f=q&source=s_q&hl=en&geocode=&q=308+S+Grove+Ave,+Oak+Park,+IL+60302-3502&aq=&sll=40.102235,-75.404663&sspn=0.432775,1.352692&ie=UTF8&hq=&hnear=308+S+Grove+Ave,+Oak+Park,+Illinois+60302&t=h&layer=c&cbll=41.882872,-87.79565&panoid=Eup5JPcDHarTHhLpFKG28A&cbp=12,66.23,,0,-2.46&ll=41.882872,-87.79565&spn=0.000436,0.001321&z=20 (http://maps.google.com/maps?f=q&source=s_q&hl=en&geocode=&q=308+S+Grove+Ave,+Oak+Park,+IL+60302-3502&aq=&sll=40.102235,-75.404663&sspn=0.432775,1.352692&ie=UTF8&hq=&hnear=308+S+Grove+Ave,+Oak+Park,+Illinois+60302&t=h&layer=c&cbll=41.882872,-87.79565&panoid=Eup5JPcDHarTHhLpFKG28A&cbp=12,66.23,,0,-2.46&ll=41.882872,-87.79565&spn=0.000436,0.001321&z=20)
I hope it works for you because that house is STILL there!!!!
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Cool! I'll have to look from home, my work computer is behind a firewall and I can't upload the Google updates. Thanks!
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Wait til you see it it is almost exactly the same! I couldn't resist I LOVE old homes :)
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The cousin wants bids beginning at $7,250
??? Too much Antiques Roadshow perhaps?
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Nice job Smile! Even the small window to the left of the door looks the same!!
Now, in your Tales-like way, you simply MUST write them a letter including the old pics and maybe they can send you pics of the inside or a bit of history ;D
So sorry about the hutch but it may still work out. This economy is pretty tough to be asking that much. I don't blame you for passing...
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They'll never get anywhere close to that, probably not even half of that. With the economy the way it is, they will be lucky to get $1,000. WAY cool that the house is still there, good job katie!
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Hi Tales, I'm with the rest, that base does =not look that early. It (the base) is very similar in style to a couple of pieces we have, and they date to the 1890s - 1900. Without a proper valuation that $7500 starting price is a non-starter. I agree with Hosman, although values are different this side of the pond, but $1000 would be TOPS!
Good luck with whittling them down!
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I got another email from the cousin who put me in touch with the cousin who owns the hutch. It does not sound like they have had it appraised and so the 1850's date is probably the guesstimate of someone in a later generation of the family. We all seem to agree on the date of the hutch 1880-early 1900's and I suspect that this was something purchased while the family was still living in the Oak Park house. I would not mind paying fair market value in order to keep family items in the family, but I can't pay silliness pricing, even for the sake of preserving history.
I too suspect that the hutch will not sell at that price, so the cousin may learn more about the hutch as he attempts to sell it. We'll see what happens.
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I just got an email from the cousin who has the piece. They brought in an estate appraiser who told them that $800 plus crating/shipping/insurance costs was more in line to a family member. Now we're talkin'.
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Additionally, I think that this is actually a bookcase, I'm seeing some similar to this categorized as book cases rather than china cabinets. That's fine, it can certainly still serve as a china hutch in my house. I've emailed and asked for photos, dimensions, condition issues, accessibility issues etc.
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So neat....they've re- configured the roofing over the doorway...but the rest looks the same! (Most likely it leaked and had to be redone....the "newer" one was less expensive am sure!) The detail pic is totally blurry on my end!
I would have to have better closeups and sideviews drawers...etc to form a solid opinion on this one. But without that....starting price of $7+......where did they get that from?
BUT>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>a very, very, very nice piece!
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I'm in direct contact with the cousin now and we're talking. I've requested the following photos:
Clear view of the front
Clear view of the back
Up close on the carved pieces near the top
Construction methods on a drawer
Up close shots of the hardware and any visible nail heads
Any writing or manufacturing tags that might appear on the insides of the drawers or back.
He says there is some deterioration of the wood on the back and I'm getting photos of that also. He describes this as "dusting" and I need to make certain that we're not dealing with woodworms and if we are, that they are completely erradicated before shipping. I won't really know what we are dealing with until I see the photos.
He has had it sixty years and writes that his mother (born in 1902) remembered sitting on the bottom shelf as a child.
So we will see, I'm moving forward cautiously.
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At least it sounds promising !! Good Luck !!
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A little more info came in:
Dimensions: it comes in three pieces that lift apart.
Overall: 72" high.
top: 4" high, 48" wide, 12" deep
case: (within top and bottom overhang: 56" high, 48" wide, 11 " deep
bottom: 13" high, 49" wide, 17" deep
weight: unknown, and maybe unknowable without taking it all apart
it has not been refinished, restored, or damaged in the 60 years we have had it
The back of the left side is "frail"; the wood is "dusting" and may need repair or replacement; we did not do anything with it.
The back of the right side was bad enough so that we put a piece of silk (also a family antique, "family lore" says that a grandfather or great grandfather imported it) over it to hide the "dusting"
"Family lore" says the cabinet came from Germany in the 1850s, but we don't know that for sure. I do remember my mother (born in 1902) talking about sitting on the front shelf of the bottom as a small child.
We will try to take the pictures you want. The shelves are held together with small triangular inserts that I have never seen before. The sidewalls of the drawers show signs of rough carpentry; they are not smooth and show no signs of sanding.
We'll get at the pictures and send those along
...and in another email he says the "dusting" is not wood worms, but that the wood is so dry and old that you get dust on your hand when you touch it and it is fragile in places, an will require special handling/crating for shipping.
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(http://i181.photobucket.com/albums/x124/talesofthesevenseas/IMG_0971.jpg)
(http://i181.photobucket.com/albums/x124/talesofthesevenseas/IMG_0972.jpg)
(http://i181.photobucket.com/albums/x124/talesofthesevenseas/IMG_0973.jpg)
(http://i181.photobucket.com/albums/x124/talesofthesevenseas/IMG_0974.jpg)
(http://i181.photobucket.com/albums/x124/talesofthesevenseas/IMG_0975.jpg)
(http://i181.photobucket.com/albums/x124/talesofthesevenseas/IMG_0976.jpg)
(http://i181.photobucket.com/albums/x124/talesofthesevenseas/IMG_0977.jpg)
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Those aluminum shelf rails have to go! I see the original shelf brackets are still there. Looks very nice, Tales, much better with the close-up pics.
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My sentiments exactly Wayward! Off with the bracket! Hopefully it really isn't needed. It looks like classic late-Victorian era to me. Oak I believe, with machanized woodworking on the exterior, but hand-cut dovetailing on the drawers. Looks like shrinkage across the grain on the shelf, so I'm guessing the shelves are original to the cabinet. I do like the plate support rail on the shelf, original or not, I can use that. The hardware looks classic late-Victorian to me, machined screw heads and mass-produced parts. I should have some photos of the back and the deterioration coming, still waiting on those deterioration photos. It is a nice cabinet, but I will have to see how much the shipping/crating is going to run and consider everything carefully.
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Well, I just emailed my cousin and told him I have decided NOT to buy the family hutch. Crating/shipping would run about $500 - $600 and to spend $1300-$1400, it really has to be something that speaks to me. What can I say, despite being a family piece, this hutch just was not grabbing me the way I had hoped that it would.
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Judging by their condition report, I would be surprised if they got even the $800 for it in this climate.... certainly over here (I know I keep on saying that brown furniture is just not in vogue over here, but it is true, and there is far too much of it for the numbers of people who still want it ... like us ... really a question of supply and demand) ... so maybe the price would come down even more after a few attempts to sell.... But your mind has to overrule the heart at times, especially if there are $$$$ involved
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The locking mechanism looks just like mine made in the later 1800's...but mine are from France. I was wondering about the style as well......it hits me as French.....
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Yeah, if I had really loved it, I would have bought it without hesitation. I just couldn't seem to muster any feelings for it, despite it being a family piece. So I decided it would be best if they try to find someone who will really love and admire it. I just wasn't the right person for it.