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Antiques! => Antique Questions Forum => Topic started by: carlav on July 17, 2011, 10:28:34 AM
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Hello,
My husband and I inherited an antique dough box passed down from his New England family. It is in very good condition. I wondered if someone might be able to give me a rough idea of how old it is? I noticed that the corners are dovetailed, which makes me think it’s from the 18th century, based on what I’ve researched.
I also wondered what type of wood might have been used. Someone told me possibly poplar or pine?
Any information would be greatly appreciated!
(http://i1208.photobucket.com/albums/cc373/carlaventresca/Dough_box_inside.jpg)
(http://i1208.photobucket.com/albums/cc373/carlaventresca/Dough_box_front.jpg)
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Can get any close ups of legs and hinges ect?
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Lovely! These are quite collectable and you can see similar ones being sold on Ebay to get an idea of the value. I have been admiring these lately. If you could take a good clear close-up of the hinges, that would help a lot. What you want to see here are hand-forged iron hinges attached with hand-cut square nails. Hopefully none of the later mass-produced stuff. Dovetailing doesn't necessarily date it to the 18th century, Lots of items made today are dovetailed. Another thing to look for is any places where the wood may have shrunk over time, peg construction and differences between the legs. They do look like they were turned on a lathe, the question is if it was a manual one or an electric one. Look for signs of hand tool use versus mechanized tools (circular saw marks would indicate later manufacturing)
Wonderful to have this kind of item in your family and it is still very useful today, these look great with any rustic decor and they can be gently used for extra storage. I am envious!! :D
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Wood could be poplar or maple !! Don`t think it would be pine for a dough box as pine is a rather sappy wood and rather fragrant even when dry !!
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The pics are way too small to even begin to determine specifics on this item.
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Thank you all for the great assistance! Here are close ups of the hinges. Interestingly, it looks like the nails used other than the ones on the hinges are hand-cut nails, and the nails on the hinges look like mass-produced kind. Perhaps the hinges were added years later?(http://i1208.photobucket.com/albums/cc373/carlaventresca/dough%20box%20round%202/Dough_box_hinge.jpg)
(http://i1208.photobucket.com/albums/cc373/carlaventresca/dough%20box%20round%202/Dough_box_hinge_leg.jpg)
(http://i1208.photobucket.com/albums/cc373/carlaventresca/dough%20box%20round%202/Dough_box_hinge_cu.jpg)
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I love the oxidized/unoxidized wood contrast on the underside of the lid! The lid supports show marks from being cut by a circular saw rather than handsawn out, so this puts it after 1800 (19th century). This would mean a power saw was used and I do not mean a modern hand held circular saw. The hinges look original to me. I do not see any other inletting from other hinges. The slotted screws do not have a centered slot so these may be hand cut slots rather than machine produced. From what I can tell, this was made sometime in the 1800s. I am not familiar with dough boxes and when they were used or went out of favor.
Here is a good site for basics. http://www.efi-costarica.com/Recognize.html Look at the screw types toward the end. If you are going to remove one for comparison, please make sure the screwdriver blade exactly fits the slot. Too small(narrow) a blade will burr the slot and damage it and too large(wide) will not work.
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I am thinking that the wood looks like maple !! Same as cutting boards, chopping blocks, and various other wooden kitchen items are made of today. It was always considered top quality and has been used for many years !!
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I too think the hinges are original. Those don't look modern or mass-produced. Check out how off-center the thru hole for the screw on the lower hinge. Looks like a terrific bread box you have there!
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The wood in the lid appears to be pine to me. Possibly fir. Not maple. Pine was a common wood to use in these from what I have read. I cannot tell what type of wood is in the legs or base.
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Could be pine I guess !! I just did not see anything that gave me that impression !! I sort of matched it against my vintage maple rolling pin and the soft honey color and lack of dark graining or knots made me think more of maple !! Pine,, however old still smells like resin to me !! There are lots of pines here and they are not my favorite tree !!
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I pine for Texas. I did not know Texas had a lot of pines. I always thought they are more of a tree of the northern forest.
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Well, we may not have as many as you do farther north but we have our share !! But we do have mostly hardwoods, oak, elm ash, cedar and hundreds of others. Every time a wind blows up I have to pick up pine sticks as I have one pine in the back yard !! Lightening has hit it twice and won`t kill the darn tree much as I hope it will !!
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Maybe you could find someone to Stihl your pine? ;)
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Since it is wider than two people can reach around and too close to my bedroom for comfort,, think I will pass on that !! Although I will say that the thought of Stihling away and finding Mr. McCullough has occurred to me !!
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Ooooo, the rumors are going to start now! Will you be running off to Oregon by chance?
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What geographic region did the family that owned this come from? It is probably made of local woods, whatever was available.
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To all who posted: Enormous thanks for all your help and knowledge!!
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What geographic region did the family that owned this come from? It is probably made of local woods, whatever was available.
They're from New Hampshire (Southern NH, near the MA border).
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Piney woods.
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Something in this picture just doesn’t look right to me.
(http://i1208.photobucket.com/albums/cc373/carlaventresca/dough%20box%20round%202/Dough_box_hinge_cu.jpg)
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Could you explain your question cogar?
I am assuming you are talking about the presence of new rust. New rust can occur on old metal if exposed to damp or humid conditions. The rust actually spider webbed into the wood in the upper hinge leg and around the pivot pin, rust has discolored the wood. Being that this is a dough box, I think the lid is pretty tight which is also exhibited by the difference in oxidation, inside and out. Anything damp left in there could cause the new rust on the metal or a difference in air temp where it was stored (unheated building for example). Just my thoughts.
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wayward, it was an observation not a question.
And I observed the fact that there are two different types of screws in the lid portion of the hinge.
And I observed the fact that given the extent of the rusting of the upper portion of the hinge there is basically little to none of your per say “spider webbing into the wood” of the lid, ….. a fact that I find hard to believe …… given the fact that the lower portion of the hinge is considerably less rusty but there is obviously a greater amount of your per say “spider webbing into the wood” of the back board.
wayward, extensive rusting = minimal bleeding ……. verses …… minimal rusting = extensive bleeding, …….. makes no sense to me ……… unless the top board/lid has been replaced, ….. which would support your claim of it being made out of pine. And the way the hinge is made it has obviously not been turned around.
Now the side boards of that box looks to me like they are 4-quarter, which would be what one would expect to see for something that was made sometime in the 1800s, ….. but the question is, ….. is the top board/lid also a 4-quarter board? If not, then pretty much for sure, it has been replaced, ….. because the tops of dough boxes were used as a “work surface”.
wayward, I have at this very minute, lying on my carpenters bench in the garage, three (3) 4-quarter by approximately 29” X 50” popular boards, that were salvaged from the base unit of a large 2-piece cabinet/cupboard, anyone of which could be used to put a lid on that “dough box”, ….. which is for such a reason I have been saving them for more than 20 years …. and the fact that these size boards are scarce as hen’s teeth because they were cut out of “virgin timber”.
I just took a photo of them because a picture is worth 1,000 words. The one on top, with the 48” plastic straight edge lying on it, was the top of the base unit, the other 2 were the side boards of the base unit.
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Ooooo, the rumors are going to start now! Will you be running off to Oregon by chance?
Nope !! Can`t take the winters there !! Old age you know !! Thought he might be a snowbird !!
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wayward, it was an observation not a question.
Sometimes, cogar, I read questions where there are none. Must be age.
The other pictures were removed so it is hard to tell the thickness of the top board. It would be nice to see if and much wear is on the top. That should be as thick as the sides if it is original.
Nice boards you have there, cogar. You never know when those may be needed. Not something you can run down to the lumber yard and pick up for sure.
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Cogar I think you are correct about the top being replaced. Notice the different color in the wood. I think the hinges were reversed when the new top was added. Bottom shows the oil from making bread in the wood and it has just started bleeding through on the top !! Dough needs to be warm to rise properly and over time it would have evaporated and colored the inside top as well !! This board is a later addition I think !! And Yes,, I do make a lot of bread but I use the oven for proofing a single loaf !! A dough box is for making several loaves at one time !!
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I am not so sure about the hinges being flipped. The screw holes closest to the pin would be opposite where they are now unless the hinge was also flipped (the outside exposed hinge would have been the inside against the wood). Taking one leg off (of the back board) would tell whether this happened. The base leg hinge is also bent to fit in the mortise and I do not see a bend in the top hinge leg. If the top was replaced, I think the hinge position stayed the same.
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wayward, that hinge has been bugging me and I think I just figured out why.
Is it not just a plain ole strap hinge for a door ...... when it actually should be an inside chest lid hinge with a 1" offset on the base leg?
And if not a 1" offset hinge then shouldn't it be a small "butterfly" hinge that is mortised into the top edge of the back board with the pivot joint to the outside.
That pictured hinge will allow the lid to be opened and closed ...... but when it is in the closed position is there not going to be a gap between the lid and the back board? :o :o :o
Me now beginning to think the hinges were replaced when the top/lid was replaced.
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I am not sure if there would be a gap because the base hinge is mortised to sink the hinge point lower into the wood. That would allow the lid to close down tighter than if it was non-mortised. There would be a gap. The owner, carlav, could tell us that. But it really was not the right hinge to use. Probably something that was on hand. Taking the hinge off would tell if there are previous holes from an original hinge.
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The end grain looks very much like fir to me..