Antique-shop.com
Antiques! => Antique Questions Forum => Topic started by: hosman321 on September 08, 2011, 03:24:58 AM
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Ok everyone, I could use a bit of help. I just bought these tongs. I have been looking for some bright-cut ones but they were all out of my price range. I found these and they were much cheaper because they don't know the maker or date. I can't decide if they were made by S.Godbehere, E.Wigan & James Bult or by Sebastian & James Crespell. The "S" in the Godbehere looks just like on my tongs, closer than the "S" in Crespell. But the shield looks like the Crespell mark. But the dots between the letters on the Crespell mark are not on my tongs. It's driving me crazy! But I am voting Godbehere.
My Tongs:
http://www.ebay.com/itm/300591415044?ssPageName=STRK:MEWNX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1439.l2649
Godbehere, Wigan, & Bult Mark...right hand column of page:
http://www.925-1000.com/dlLondon12.html#M
Crespell Mark, all the way at the bottom of page:
http://www.silvermakersmarks.co.uk/Makers/London-SA-SC.html
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OH!!! Those are LOVELY!! I don't think I can add anything that hasn't been done already, but I think that you have a neat set of tongs, with loads of personality. They are positively dripping with history!
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Nice & cool little cube-tongs , hosman321 !
I'll take a close look @ the marks tomorrow (when my ole eyes are not so tired & see if I can add more than this) .
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NIce Set of Tongs. Ditto about fancy's comments....tired eyes tonight!
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Thank you everyone! Can you revise an ebay listing after the listing has closed? I swear I read the description 20 times before I bought it and did NOT see that it had been repaired right over the maker's mark. I told the seller after I paid that I noticed the repair at that spot and voila!, now it is in the listing. Is this possible or was I seriously blind 20 times in a row? ???
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Looks like your eyesight is just fine Hosman. Do a right click on the description and select properties. It was modified on 9/9/11. The auction ended on 9/8/11.
You can also see it if you go to your browser, select View, then select Source. In the resulting window select Edit, then select Time/Date. You'll see when it was last modified at the beginning of the HTML code. If I am not mistaken, a saavy seller is able to alter the date and time manually in the source code by doing the same thing and editing the code, but it looks like your seller didn't think of that. If you want to pursue this, you might want to save some screen captures.
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That just pisses me right off. I might send them back just because of that. If I do keep them because I love them too much, I will leave negative feedback. How dare he try to save his own butt like that. RUDE!!
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This was the email I sent right before they modified it. Was trying to help but it kinda backfired... ::) Like, why would they need to modify it if it was already bought and paid for? It wasn't to help me, it was to help themselves. And they have a 7 day return policy anyways if you are not happy, so ???
I just wanted to write and say thank you for the lightning fast shipping! I am very excited for these tongs, I am a new collector and they are beautiful. I did hours of research before buying them and just wanted to let you know, just for the sake of learning, that I think I found the maker. I believe they were made by S. Godbehere, E. Wigan and James Bult. The "S" looks much more like their "S" than the Crespell "S". And the shape of the shield and distance between each letter also looks like the Godbehere mark. I think that maybe there was a crack or something that was smoothed over which is why the middle of the mark is gone. But of course, I could just be trying to sound like I know what I'm talking about. That would date these to 1809. Anywho, just thought I would share that for future reference. Thank you again! Jessica
The Godbehere mark is on the right hand side of this page.
http://www.925-1000.com/dlLondon12.html#M
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I would give him/her a chance to respond before leaving negative feedback. Contact him/her tell them that you can see that they modified the document on 9/9/11 and then request whatever will resolve the situation, like a partial refund. Getting busted like this ought to be enough to keep them from doing it again, but I would take some screen captures now. (see my post above, I modified it while you were posting and there is another way they can cheat by modifying the code)
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Crap, Hosman I was wrong. If you look at the properties option on any Ebay page it shows modification on today's date. It must pick up the info from the changes in the Ebay advertising rather than when the document was modified. Let me see if I can find a better way to determine if a document has been changed.
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I hope I did not create an uncomfortable situation. It looks like a seller can ADD to a listing at any time, even after bids are in, but cannot delete information. It looks like the only way to tell if it has changed is to take screen captures of the auctions you're bidding on. :(
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T - I think you are right about not being able to change a description once a bid id in....
Wayward was helping me a while back to add "smoke-free home" to a description. I wasn't able since someone already bid so he asked a question on my listing so I could include "smoke free home" in my answer....
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I didn`t see anything was altered and as far as I know you cannot alter a description once a bid has been placed !! I did see that he added the info you gave him on the maker !! The description said it was possibly an old repair,, they really weren`t sure,, so I would just look at it when it arrives !!
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Then maybe it's time for me to get an eye exam. ;D
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Any opinions about that maker's mark?
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I think I may return these. I got them today and noticed a second break. I'm a little irritated, I wouldn't have bought them had I known. These people deal in fine jewelry and silver. They knew it had 2 breaks. I am a beginner and only have a few pieces and I noticed it right away with the naked eye. I wrote to ask if I could return them or get a partial refund. I do understand that silver this old is likely going to have flaws, but these are big flaws and they really detract from the beauty and craftsmanship. It's similar to having cracks or chips on glass, in my opinion. :-\
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Shoot. Sorry it turned out that way. Let us know if you get a whole or partial refund on them. It will be interesting to see how the seller relists them.
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:( that is a shame, seems like a shady seller to me.
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yea sorry to hear this, I had to go back and look at the pics, sure didn't include pictures of the damage part.
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This was the email I received. I have no idea how much to ask for as a partial refund. I like them but the repairs are really obvious. Hmmm what to do...
Hi Jessica
thank you very much for your note,
I am quite sorry to hear that there is another spot that looks like a repair that I missed.
firstly, yes, we do accept returns on all of our items, (and in this situation where we miss something, I can pay for both the initial and return shipping fees, ---as you shouldn't be penalized for an error on my end)
with that being said, if you would prefer to keep them, we can consider a partial refund (depending on what you have in mind)
so just let me know what you would prefer to do, and we will go from there.
you can certainly send an image of the other area if you would like, --but I know that it is a lot of work to photograph/email etc. an image, so not to worry if you don't, --we trust you.
thanks again for writing, and let me know what you would like to do,
if you would like to return them just please let me know so that I can keep an eye out for them, and I will send you my address to where to mail them back.
Jenn
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Sounds remorseful. Hopefully all goes well with the outcome which ever way you choose. :)
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Do you think it's too much to ask for $12.00?
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That is up to you really, doesnt sound like to much to me.
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She's sending the $12 back. ;)
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I'm going with Crespell. Definitely looks like an unaltered 'I' to me.
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Crap..........I didn't see Page 2!!
Sorry for the disappointment hosman.......luckil y you have a buyer who is trying to do the right thing.
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OK, scrap the Crespell vote.
(http://i158.photobucket.com/albums/t98/geeziesmom/tongs-8_001.jpg)(http://i158.photobucket.com/albums/t98/geeziesmom/GODBEHERE2BIS.jpg)(http://i158.photobucket.com/albums/t98/geeziesmom/tongs-8_001-1.jpg)
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Thank you for taking the time Sapphire! I think they are Godbehere, too. That "E" you pointed out confirms it for me. :)
And the upturned part of the "I" on the upper right of it. Thank you! This date letter was also used in 1829, but I can't find how long G+W+B were in business. Are these 1809 or 1829? The lion changed to facing forward in 1831, I don't know how long the King George III mark was used.
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He died in 1820, so these are 1809. ;)
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I'm glad the seller was willing to work with you, hosman. You did more than your part by researching the item and investing your time into it (which perhaps the seller didn't do enough of), and I certainly don't think $12 was too much to ask. I'm sure the seller also preferred that to going through the whole return & relisting process. I hope you leave the seller good feedback even if you note in it there was a problem but it was resolved...then again I'm also biased this week because I got burned by a buyer. ;)
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I left her very nice feedback. :) Although she did say that $12 was a little high. Which I don't get because she said she would pay original+return shipping, which probably would have been $8. Oh well, I consider it case closed and she was pretty nice.
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Do you recall how much the thingie weighs ?
(just a non-important question)
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The ad says 32.3 grams, I don't have a scale though. ;)
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Well, she's wrong, that's not high--considering the cost of the original item, the problems you encountered, what she would've paid anyways in return shipping, etc. She probably was just saying that so you wouldn't counter and ask for even more. If you were the buyer I had this week, you would've kept the item, demanded a full refund including all shipping, and then left her scathing feedback anyways. She is lucky to have had a kind gent (I'm assuming you're a gent by the "man" in your name) such as yourself!
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Harbor Freight Tools , near 6th & Pearl in Tacoma have got a workable (& cheap !!!) digital scale with batts included for $7.99 with the coupon ... they're pocket/purse sized & handy to have , when out 'shopping' for metals/jewels & such .
Got two of them myself !
@ today's price for silver , it would have had a value of over $32.00 , if .800 silver ... just sayin' ...
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Oh my gosh fancypants I was just thinking today about how I need to buy a digital scale and wondering if I'd have to part with a pretty penny for one. That's CHEAP! What state is it in? Do you guys live near each other or something? I wonder if they have any deals like that near me. I'll trade you an asbestos fuse puller for one. LOL ;)
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Yeah , we're in the same neck o' tha woods , GG .
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Man, I really need to get one fancy! I have started getting the Sunday paper occasionally for the coupons. My husband brought me one home yesterday and all the coupons were gone. I hate when people do that! Oh, and greenhorn I'm female and live near Tacoma, WA. :P :)
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Oops, sorry hosman! That is exactly what happens when one assumes :-[ ;D
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You can buy o/l @ that price till Oct. 23rd , GreenhornGirl , provided that you mention/proceed with the coupon ... (harborfreight.com)
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I just wanted to say that repaired or not, I think they are really neat. Love these tongs! :)
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Thanks, fancypants! :)