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Antiques! => Antique Questions Forum => Topic started by: KevinB on October 19, 2011, 11:01:00 PM
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I have this oil painting on canvas I posted someplace else and I wasn't really impressed with the help I got. This painting came with a collection of Czech stuff I purchased. I figured out what town it was by comparing it to pictures of Czech towns. Its a painting of the town of Kutna Hora. Next I compared the painting to the earliest known photos of Kutna Hora that were taken in 1865 and there are alot more buildings in the photos compared to my painting. The wide building to the left is the Jesuit College which in 1843 to 1844 the center tower was removed from this side of the building. So the painting depicts the town sometime after 1844 but before 1865.
Its signed John Stowasser but he is not a known artist so that is a dead end. I did find one John Stowasser from that region who was born in 1847 and moved to Budapest in 1867. He owned a musical instrument factory in Budapest.
How old do you think this painting is?
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I always have trouble finding with my Art pieces, Kevin. I guess it's hard unless someone sees it in person. But I got this in my e-mail today from Canadian Pickers, maybe give them a go at it.
"Expert Knowledge
Check out our collection of posts and appraisals from North America’s top experts in antiques and collectibles. Find out the history behind your antiques and what they’re worth. You never know, you might sitting on a goldmine!
Check-in frequently – we’ll be adding new contributors and articles regularly."
The link:
http://www.canadianpickers.com/pickers-handbook/expert-knowledge
Good luck.
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I have looked and searched this for the last two hours !! I am not sure that John is a typical Czech name,, at least with that spelling !! May be,, but I didn`t find it !! Checked European artists as well as American with no luck !! Since it is not by a listed and known artist,,it is more of a hobbyist piece,,value would be minimal !! But as to date I have looked at the texture of the canvas, how it is mounted and at the keys and my best guess would be that it was done early 1900`s !! More likely around 1910 or 1920 !! And there are numbers of 154 or 159 (couldn`t see it very well) on the bottom of the pic of the stretcher bar and I am thinking that would have been the price !! And that is about what it would have cost around that time !!
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just tried to look at Canadian Pickers and it told me it was for Canadians only... whats this world coming too??? Isnt Minnesota close enough lol
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Are you serious? That is awful! It's a great site. I'll make a complaint for you! ;)
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You mean they discriminate against Americans ??? Baaad site !! LOL
just tried to look at Canadian Pickers and it told me it was for Canadians only... whats this world coming too??? Isnt Minnesota close enough lol
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I'll bug them until they change it! ;)
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Tell them they are limiting their audience !!
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In regard to dating the painting. From the colors, technique and form, I would agree with Mart in placing it in the first quarter of the 20th Century. In fact, I would even venture to guess that it might have been created shortly after the formation of the Republic of Czechoslovakia in 1918. Regardless, it is still interesting, and deserves more research. Good luck.
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Thanks very much Mart and Rauville. I was hoping it was older but I'm not surprised at all it would date to around 1920. Do you really think the 154 written in pencil would be the original price? I was wondering if it wasn't some sort of reference number. There is an ink stamp above the number 12 I was able to make out as New York, NY. It looks like there was something else above it but its pretty much gone. So what kind of value would you estimate?
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The stamp by the size measurement is most likely the name of whatever company made the framed canvas !! Company name and New York,NY !! Wouldn`t be a reference number for a hobby painter,, what would the reference be ?? Pencil back then and rather simple pricing would be typical for the period !!
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I really appreciate you being patient with me Mart. If you couldn't tell I never owned a painting before. Thanks for explaining everything for me. :)
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I tried searching too! Can't get anything other than the guy who changed his last name (not same first name) to that.
I really hope this gets solved!
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Thanks Snowflake. I have spent so much time searching its kind of sad. lol Atleast I know what its a painting of and I now have a good idea of when it was done. I'm also glad Mart taught me some art basics for dummies. :)
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That you even found out what and where it was is impressive! I wouldn't have had a clue! If you want, Ill snatch your photo's and post it at the picker site.
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That would be great. I really do appreciate any effort in helping me.
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I'd say one thing ; the strecher frame appears to have been re-used , with staple & nail marks from whatever canvas originally was secured to it (not @ all like 'protective' barriors that would be sometimes affixed to the reverse of a painting , such as paper) .... unless your canvas was trimmed-down , for whatever reason .
I'd strongly suggest that you remove the mounted canvas & frame from the outer frame .... in order to inspect it for additional info , including the method that the canvas was secured to the stretcher , as well as any 'covert' damage/insect nests & etc .
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I thought the new expert section was to ask them about your antiques. It is only to see what they have already valued. Oh well, put it up at the forum anyway. You never know. It's not very active. Don't hold your breath. ;)
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There was a old piece of cardboard that was tacked and taped to the back of the stretcher frame that I was told to remove to see if any good info was hiding underneath.
I can see nails holding the canvas onto to stretcher frame. I was trying to post a pic but the program I use is having issues. I will try to post again later. I was tempted to take it out of the frame but I'm afraid of damaging it. Its held in with finishing nails and I know what a pain in the butt they can be. Any suggestions on how to get them out? Or just pry gently?
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I usually use a small pair of diagonal wire-cutters , needle-nose pliers , etc . ; generally I try to grip any exposed area of nails/brads/tacks & ease them out to the point that one can grip the head of the nail & remove it (without digging into the frame/framing elements) .
Avoid doing any damage , if you run into a 'tight & tough' one , by using a small pc/block of wood/nylon/etc. as a 'pry-block' .
Just take your time & be firm , but patient with the nails , KevinB .
Thanks for your comments about the backing mat'l , as I was curious .
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I saw those finish nails !! Thats why I didn`t ask that it be out of the frame to inspect !! But that is another hint that the artist was not well informed about framing art !! Its always possible that the painting was restretched/tightened up !! I did notice some cracking along the edges that indicate that it may have been,, rather than reused !! But if when it is out of the frame you can tell that there may be colors that just do not belong to this painting !! If so then that is also a possibility but most artists would have sanded and applied a layer of gesso over the old painting before doing another !! And just to clarify what I said,,, I did not mean that the number on the back was the price of the painting,,I meant the price of the unpainted canvas when it was purchased !! I am not sure I helped much on this but if so,, I am happy to do it !! I just wish we could have discovered the artist was a listed one !!
If you try to take it out of the frame ( I don`t think I would as that is the way you found it and it will leave holes and possibly weaken it more) But if you do,, get someone to hold the painting upright and use a small wood block and tack hammer and tap the topmost edge all the way around till you can remove it from the frame but don`t take the nails out !! When done looking at it,, try to put it back as it was !! I think that is part of its history and I would keep it that way if it were me !!
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I'll think about taking it out but at this point I dont really want to.
I found almost the same exact painting that was done by a well known czech artist. It looks like there might be a few more buildings in the foreground compared to mine and very slight differences in the trees. http://www.odklepnuto.cz/aukce/4215060/kutna-hora-mal-jar-setelik-r1925-ai64.html
I dont know what to make of it. The town didn't look like this when either of the paintings were done and they are too similair to be a coincidence. What do you all think?
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The view is similar but my opinion on your painting is that it was done by either an American or most likely by someone in the UK !! The painting #2 looks a bit more finished than yours does !! As with many plein aire artists if time was a factor and they wanted to capture a scene at a particular moment, it was usually roughed in while on location and all the main elements are put on the canvas, then back at the studio they would use drawings or photos to complete it !! Using artistic license is common and not always are all the elements correct !! Even the old masters did this !! I have also done many paintings and literally get tired of painting trees ect !! So I stopped and went on to more interesting elements like the wildlife !! Thats one thing about being an artist,, only one you have to please is yourself !! As far as another painting of the same scene showing up,, Its a very common thing for several artists to paint the same scene !! Where that particular view was a popular one !! You would naturally pick a pretty scene to put on your canvas !! But each artist may see things differently !!