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Antiques! => Antique Questions Forum => Topic started by: JoshandLila on November 13, 2011, 06:02:46 PM
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Hi again folks! My grandpa gave this too me when I was barely a teenager, I hunted with it for years. Now its being retired to a place above the mantel but I was just wondering what it might be worth or if anyone could point me in the right direction of where to find out. its stamped "Victor Ejector" Crescent Firearms CO. Norwign(?) Conn USA. The Crescent Co is now best known for their wrenches, but back in the 1800's they also made guns among a number of other things. I believe this was they first shotgun with the automatic shell ejector that popped out the spent shell when you reloaded (its a single shot) and the only other info I found about it said " the rarity of the Victor Ejector model makes it very hard to determine the value". Its in rough shape, but it still exists (and works)and thats pretty cool Thought Id show it to you guys and see what you thought. THANKS!!
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Texasbadger could help with this one hope he stops by !!!!
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I have a blue book of gun values !! This is what it says about your gun !! "Victor Ejector, Crescent Fire Arms Co. .410 bore 12 in. single barrel, total production unknown, possible prototype for Crescent Certified Shotgun !! Extreme rarity factor precludes accurate pricing" !! You had better keep it laying on pillows !! Its apparently very expensive !!!
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Nice mart!!!!! joshandlila keep it safe & have it appraised by an expert!!! insure that puppy!!!
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I am a member of a gun group and occassionally visit there !! I will try to check with the experts there and get their thinking on it tomorrow !! For sure get it insured as soon as you can determine a value !!
Only bad thing I can say is that the values of the Crescents that are listed are not much and top price is only $1200. but the three models that are rare could be much higher !!
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Lol ;D Nice gift!
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Two differant companies here:
Crescent Arms was located in Norwich, Conn. and manufactured good low cost guns under their own name, along with dozens of private brands for various retailers. I believe they were acquired by Stevens Firearms in the early 30's. Crescent Tool Co. was located in Jamestown, NY., and was basically a family owned business from their beginning in 1907 on up to the 1960's.
(BTW: The "Crescent Certified Shotgun" was a .410 pistol with a 12" barrel. That's why it's rare, and illegal if not registered with the Treasury Dept.)
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You know I really didn`t pay attention to that but you are right !! Only thing is the Victor Ejector (should have paid more attention) is not even listed as a long barrel !! So there is anopther question !! And Crescent sold the Certified model to Stevens but thats all they bought !! After a string of changes Savage Arms bought the rest from Crescent-Davis !! Wonder if records exist there !!
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This probably isn't the right place, but I'll tell you a true story about how research (or lack of it) relates to the value of an item. Years ago, I had a 1866 Winchester in the shop for sale for $1000. The gun was basically a well used specimen, with the only variation from standard being a small scratched in design on the side of the brass receiver consisting of a circle with 3 dots, and an arrow pointing to the circle. I eventually ended up taking a roll-top desk in trade for the gun, and it went to a new owner.
Long story short, in the next few years there was an University of Nebraska dig at the Little Big Horn Battle site in Montana. They found various artifacts, including bullets, brass shell casings, etc. For a limited amount of time that Summer they would forensically test a weapon against those bullets and casings.
Don't you know it...that very Winchester that I once owned and sold, proved to have been used at the Battle by the opposition.
The last time it changed hands was at a Julia Auction back in the year 2000. That old Winchester went from a $1000 gun to a $684,000 one!!!
Sorry to step on your post, but I just wanted to show how it pays to do your homework.
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Thanks for the info everyone!! I knew it was rare but didnt really realize just how rare it was. Mart, thanks alot and definitely let me know what you find out. Im gonna see if I can find an appraiser who knows old guns!! ;D
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Wow... amazing story Rauville, would love to see a picture. J&L, keep us posted on how this turns out!
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Don't walk, run ;D! For that kind of value I'd want it ins. and where's an auction house, lol
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JoshandLila, here is a place you might want to check out.
Gun-Appraisals.Com
Here is a listing of the 'bare minimum' information we require in order to ascertain the value of your gun.
• manufacturers name
• model
• serial number
• gauge/caliber
• barrel length
• condition
http://www.gun-appraisals.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=wiw2u.templates&templates_id=78 (http://www.gun-appraisals.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=wiw2u.templates&templates_id=78)
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Rauville,, that would be my luck !!
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Good luck, J&L! Rauville...now you'll have everyone paranoid about everything! (Okay, maybe just me) So sorry though.
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I have posted this on Gunbroker and will see what they have to say !! But I may know what happened ( some day I will learn to read through carefully) !! This is from the Blue Book info "Savage arms bought Crescent-Davis in 1931 and assembled guns from the remaining parts and these guns were sold under the Crescent name only" !! In 1932 the city of Norwich took over the Crescent factory for back taxes after that closed it was moved to Chicopee Falls" !! It`s possible that this is a hybrid that was made from whatever parts were handy after Savage bought the factory !!
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Here is what the expert had to say !!
Victor Ejector was one of the many names including just plain Victor, Victor Arms Co, Victor No 1, Victor No 10, Victor No 11, Victor No 15, Victor American Gun Co, Victor Ejector American Gun Co, Victor Junior, Victor Plain American Gun Co, Victor Thompson U.S. Armor Steel and Victor Special made by the Crescent Fire Arms Company of Norwich,CT (1892 to 1931). All were made for and sold by H & D Folsom of New York City, a large wholesale and retail sporting goods dealer except the last one which was made for and sold by the Hibbard Spencer Bartlett Company of Chicago,IL. Incidentally H & D Folsom owned Crescent Fire Arms and whatever Folsom wanted, Crescent made. And what they wanted was a lot of inexpensive (read cheap) shotguns fast. In their forty years of making shotguns, Crescent made over 2,000,000 shotguns using at least 450 known names. It has been said Crescent would make as few as twelve guns with some selected name as long as the buyer paid for the die need to stamp the name on the gun. Many of these names were never recorded. I find at least one (new?) unknown name a month. As to value. These guns were inexpensive even when new and have not appreciated much since. They sold new for $15 to $25 back when the wages were two dollars a day. Value today depends on the guns condition, the amount of original finish remaining on the metal and wood as well as the mechanical condition. A prime condition example that appears to have come out of the factory yesterday afternoon might bring as much as $125 (.410 bore a bit more) while a rusty rotten incomplete piece of junk fit only for parts salvage or as a fire place poker might bring as little a $10. Most I have seen sold on the various gun auction sites have sold for between $50 and $95. Price reference books like the Blue Book don't list these generic names because there just too many of them (I have listings of over 850 names that were used).
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Ned Fall
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Thanks Mart, appreciate the research! not quite the treasure I hoped it was but its still a nice mantel piece!!
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Sorry !! We were all hoping it would be a good one for you !! And it is,, because your grandfather gave it to you and for that reason it is priceless !!!
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Yes, unfortunately, even some guns -- even if old -- just aren't worth much. DH inherited several guns which are simply not valuable. But some were used by his father in WWII, and one was used by HIS father in WWI, and all were used by his ancestors, many of whom he knew and loved and hunted with. Some are just beautiful, elegant pieces. My favorites are two double-barrel shotguns. See below:
(http://www.lemuelmorton.com/NonFamilyPics/DSC03909.JPG)
This one and the pic below are of an old Eclipse gun, sold in the Sears catalog back in the day. Fire it, and you take your life in your hands! -- they aren't made of the best grade of steel. DH's "Uncle Bubba" (his father's uncle), hunted all over the county with this one.
(http://www.lemuelmorton.com/NonFamilyPics/DSC03910.JPG)
And this is an old Springfield double-barrel -- Uncle Bubba's gift to my FIL when he was a teen.
(http://www.lemuelmorton.com/NonFamilyPics/DSC03911.JPG)
(http://www.lemuelmorton.com/NonFamilyPics/DSC03912.JPG)
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I wasnt gonna sell it anyway.. way too many memories, but its always nice to find out if you need to add insurance or not lol. Curious- valuable or not those are beautiful guns!! Thanks everyone for the help!
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THey are not worth much CC but those are my favorite guns !! Have had several over the years and I just like the style of them !! But shoot one,,,No way !! Those damascus twist steel barrels have a habit of coming unwound !! They sure look good hanging over a fireplace though !!
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Good info here, not much to add except an in hands inspection by an accredited appraiser or auction house would help. Nice family heirloom, Blue Book is just a guide or tool to use in conjunction with actual show experience or auction results. Here is an example with a buy it now option of $200 currently at $140
http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/ViewItem.aspx?Item=259568857
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Thanks for posting the follow-up so that we can all learn from this. (Also neat shotgun CC!)
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Thanks Texas, thats they only other one Ive ever seen!! My stock is in worse shape but I think my barrel is 10x better so this gives me an idea
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Keep us posted! This is a great thread!
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Hi J&L, how's the search going? I too, have the same .410 that you inquired about, and have been doing some research on it. The shotgun originally belonged to my Dad's Uncle Bud. They lived on a huge farm in Michigan. Uncle Bud gave it to my Dad, and now it's mine. It's a Victor Ejector from Crescent Fire Arms, Norwich Conn. I have found that the .410 was the most popular gun that was made by them, but the Victor Ejector was made in the .12, .16, .20, .410 gauge range. They had two physical locations where they could be bought, Chicago, and New York. I think that they were also available in Sears and Roebuck Catalogs. One source, I can't recall which one, said that these guns were sold in Hardware stores. I have also seen some articles where they refer to the .410, as a pistol with a 12 inch barrel.I hope this helps. I'm going to try to attach a picture of an advertisement for the gun.
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J&L, here's on other piece of info I thought I'd pass along. A Gun Collector friend of mine said that the .410 can also fire .45cal colt pistol rounds made for the colt revolver, but only colt .45 rounds and only the revolver. Now before you try this I would check with a gun dealer first, but I just thought I'd pass that little tid bit along.
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J&L, here's on other piece of info I thought I'd pass along. A Gun Collector friend of mine said that the .410 can also fire .45cal colt pistol rounds made for the colt revolver, but only colt .45 rounds and only the revolver. Now before you try this I would check with a gun dealer first, but I just thought I'd pass that little tid bit along.
Before someone decides to try this: For your own safety...Please, don't do it!
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Many say this not only on this one but others too !! I would under no circumstances try it !! I know that the person posting means well and is just passing on info but some things are best left to gun experts !!
Welcome to the forum BTW, McCoysant !!
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Why do you guys think I said to ask a gun dealer first?
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We have many people that join and are only here a very short time and we have others that stay and read and learn !! We emphasize the safety aspects for those that do not hang around long as well as those that do !! We would like to think that one would do as you said and ask an expert but that may not be the case !! Perhaps they remember that someone said they could shoot that round in a 410. but not remember the rest of what you said !! I would hate to think what could happen if someone took todays high powered 45 cal. round and put it in an old gun !! Ballistics have come a long way since the days of that gun !! It may seem like we are over doing it but better to do that than have an accident.
Perhaps by reading it from several of us they will not try it !! Some things are just better left to experts !!
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mart makes a valid point.
If one doesn't have valid information to add, then they are on the learning side. Even an expert can learn, and most are on the other side--for sure we have lots to learn in this country about guns.
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Some say yes, ... many say no, ...... but most are only guessing. Read their comments, to wit:
http://thefiringline.com/forums/showthread.php?t=486458 (http://thefiringline.com/forums/showthread.php?t=486458)
All I will say is, ...... if you fear for your life from an attacker ..... and all you got is your .410 .... and a couple .45 cartridges, ...... well then ...... ;D ;D ;D
Or you can buy yourself a new pistol that is specifically made to shoot both.
Smith & Wesson Governor .410 bore/.45LC/.45 ACP Revolver
http://cheaperthandirt.com/blog/?p=5986 (http://cheaperthandirt.com/blog/?p=5986)
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Thats a really wierd looking pistol !! I think if I were S&W I would have extended that barrel length a bit !!
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That pistol makes for a really great "sidearm" for farmers, ranchers, hunters and fishermen ....... cause its a great "snake killer".
I use to be an avid Brook Trout fisherman and I always carried my Colt 4" .357 Python with me with half the chambers loaded with "shotshells" (http://www.midwayusa.com/product/757831/cci-shotshell-ammunition-38-special-357-magnum-109-grain-9-shot-box-of-10)
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I always wanted a Snake Charmer,, forgot who made them !! Think they are outlawed now !!